Societal acceptance of pants wetting - or the lack thereof

[Anonymous]

This has always really bothered me and I just wanted to get it off my chest. Sorry if it bothers you. Anyway, here goes.

I freely admit that I am a very different kind of person than most. I partake of activities that most people think are strange, sick, taboo even. For example, I enjoy peeing in my pants, wetting my bed, wearing diapers. These are things I can do, things that do not require any assistance or participation by other people.
My family has always been one of strict beliefs. To them, pants and bedwetting, and diaper wearing, are strange things for a person to like doing. To them, anyone who likes to do them is sick, has something wrong with them, needs help. If I openly admitted to them that I love to wet my pants and bed, they would desperately seek help for me, do everything they could to “cure” me of the horrible mental disorder that is supposedly afflicting me. In other words, they would do whatever it took to try and force me to go about life the way they do, believe in what they believe in, whether I wanted to or not. Psychologist Dr. Nancy R. Nangeroni said it best when she said, “To discourage the free expression of identity and orientation by an individual is to impose a damaging burden of conformity.”

For my family to try and discourage my enjoyment of pants wetting, bed wetting and diaper wearing, would be to impose a damaging burden of conformity. They would be trying to force me to conform, not only to their own beliefs, but indeed to those of society as a whole. Why does the vast majority of society have such beliefs? Why is our society’s code of ethics the way it is? It is all to do with the way we are raised by our parents. Our parents raised us to think and act a certain way. Some things are quite acceptable and we are encouraged to do them. Other things are considered to be horrible, taboo, sick things, and we are strongly discouraged, indeed totally forbidden, from doing them. The only reason this happens, the only reason our parents brought us up that way, is because they were brought up the same way, and their parents before them, and so on and so on.

It all comes down to parental conditioning. We behave the way we do because that is the way our parents taught us to behave, that is the way our parents wanted us to behave. They molded us into the type of person they wanted us to be. Unfortunately, parents never stop to think that this child they are busily molding into the person they want them to be, just might prefer to decide for themselves thank you very much. By the time the child is old enough to think for themselves and make such decisions, it is too late. The conditioning is complete, and is very difficult, if not impossible, for the child to ignore. Then, when the child, usually youth by then, discovers something that they really enjoy doing, something that’s really different, one of those taboo things, they have an extremely difficult time dealing with it. When the parents find out they become very angry and upset and forbid the child or youth from ever doing it again. Often, severe punishments and humiliations are doled out in retribution for the child or youth’s “wrong doing”. This in itself is wrong and should not happen. But the parents never seem to stop and think about that. All they think about is that THEY don’t do that, THEY don’t believe in things like that. And here comes that most notorious of lines parents so love to say: “I didn’t raise you to behave that way”. If this isn’t proof, then nothing ever will be. I would love to be present with an angry parent while they’re reprimanding their child and hear them say that line. I would say to them, “Do you realise what you just said?”

More than likely they would tell me to butt out. But I would quietly and politely say, “I just don’t think it’s right for a parent to try and raise their child to be what they want him to be. He is a human being just like you and should be allowed to choose for himself. Until he is old enough to properly make the decisions for himself, quietly and politely explain to him that normally people don’t do such things, that the world in general looks at such things as being unacceptable as a normal daily activity. When the child starts to get upset, make a pact with him, tell him that for now, he really shouldn’t do it, but when he gets older and has a chance to think about it some more, he can decide for himself, is this really something I want to do, will I be happy doing this? If at that time he decides he would still like to do it, you accept that this is the type of person he has chosen to be, and you allow him to be that person, and do whatever it is he wanted to do. After all, the decision is his, not yours. It is not your place to try and impose your beliefs on your child.” This is the way it should be. But sadly, this is not the way it is.

Society is, I feel, slowly coming around to a more sensible way of thinking. It is inevitable that one day, such activities will be accepted by society. It will take time though, as these things always do. People, it seems, are very reluctant to change, very reluctant to accept things that are currently considered as wrong. Nobody wants to be the first to fully and openly accept it, to freely embrace it and engage in it themselves. Nobody wants to be first. Someday it will happen. Someday.

[Anonymous]

Hi,

I think generally you should be a lot less concerned about what your parents would think if you told them of your interests. After all, I would say very few of us tell just anybody - least of all our parents - of any of our sexual feelings - particularly our love of wetting. In part this is just the fact that certain things are private.

Yes, society does not understand our interests, but does it really matter all that much? I mean, I can understand why homosexuals wanted to 'come out' - so they could legitemise their same-sex partners, but we don't really need to come out now we have the internet.

Just relax and wet yourself images/smiles/icon_wink.gif images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

David

[Anonymous]

I would agree mostly with David. In the year 2002
there are many ways to enjoy our fetish. Dispite all your training you enjoy this right?. Once you are of legal age it is nice to have parental approval but not a neccessity. If you are sure it would break thier heart thier is no need to tell them if you love them. Some things you have to tell them even if it breaks thier heart. You are dying of cancer etc. but not your sexual fetishes.
Relax and take care
Fillherup

[Anonymous]

Well, I guess that came across the wrong way. I'm not uptight or worked up about it, it's not a case of trying to relax. It's more a case of wishing things were different, more conducive to pants wetting more freely and not having to be so secretive about it all the time. And it was also something of a rant about the injustice of forced conformity by our parents. They want to force us not to do it because it makes THEM uncomfortable. They do it for their own peace of mind and they have little regard for the individual in question. No, I'm not all worked up about it, I am relaxed enough, it's just that I'm tired of the secrecy necessitated by society's refusal to accept our fetish. We shouldn't have to resort to message boards on the internet, all gathering here in a cloak of secrecy like conspirators or something. I just think that that we should do what homosexuals and lesbians did: band together and come out to the world, force the world to accept us rather the world force us not to do it. Don't you think it's about time? I sure do. Take care and don't stop wetting.

Cnon88

[quietpr]

A similar suggestion was made by another poster here a week or so ago...

And while I agree in spirit with your conclusion that it is unfair that watersports enthusiasts should have to bear a veil of shame for a kink that is significantly LESS destructive or dangerous than other much more accepted fetishes like S&M...I can only say that in due time, something will happen to produce a groundswell of public interest in watersports.

It will appear on American television directly (rather than the careful and quiet references made about peeing in popular media today), and a fan club of that show will take a public interest in a more accepted internet forum...or something like that...and we'll be on our way to being accepted in general.

A couple of shows came awefully close to bringing increased freedom to discuss watersports to America (and in the UK, they're actually a bit ahead in that respect, which could explain the increased number of watersports enthusiasts from that region)...

I'm 100% convinced that there's a ws enthusiasts on either the cast or the writing staff of the American sitcom "Friends"...

No other show in the history of television has so many pee references...it seems like one every three weeks!

It's only a matter of time.

[Anonymous]

You said, "It will appear on American television directly...". You're sure about that? It won't happen anywhere else? There are other countries in this world you know. Whether you like to think so or not sir, not everything happens in the United States of America. I do wish you would realise that. I'm not trying to be insulting here, it just irks me to see Americans always assuming that it's going to happen in America, like nowhere else in this world matters. Anyway, you are right that references to peeing are showing up more and more in popular media, but they are still done in a joking manner and the public consensus is still that nobody should seriously consider doing it on a regular basis. We have a long way to go yet and sadly it is probably not going to happen in our lifetimes. You are also right that pants wetting is far less destructive than other fetishes, like B&D and S/M. Indeed it is a harmless activity which results in nothing more than a few extra clothes to wash. Sadly, very few people seem to want to see it that way. Ah well. We can hope.

[Anonymous]

To Cnon88: Glad you are not uptight. If ws becomes popular it would be great but I do not want to force my sexuality on anyone nor do I want them to force thiers on me. Sexuality should be private it adds to the mystery.
I think if you read quitpr's post he mentioned more WS happining on British T.V. so I was not a totally Americancentric post. I love to read about desperation and wetting anywhere in the world and am interested in what is going in different places with regard to our favorite subject. Actually it gives me a little bit of hope to read posts from people from all these places that have the same turn on's as I do.

[quietpr]

Ummm...Cnon...

I even ACKNOWLEDGED that the UK was ahead of the US in that regard...

The reason I focused on America was that generally social change doesn't cement itself until America has also made the adjustment...

You won't see WS getting a whole lot of press until it finally gets a foot-hold in the US...this is no knock on other countries...it's just that so much of the world's entertain industry is centered on America, and three of the four largest news reporting services in the world are American.

[Anonymous]

Quietpr,

You said, "The reason I focused on America was that generally social change doesn't cement itself until America has also made the adjustment...".

So the rest of the world has to wait until America decides it's going to "(make) the adjustment"? With all due respect sir, the world does NOT revolve around America. America does not make the world function. You Americans seem to think that your country controls the rest of the world, that things will only happen if they happen in America first. Granted you did mention that it is appearing with great frequency in the U.K., and on British television. But to suggest that "social change doesn't cement itself until America (makes) the adjustment" is to be arrogant in the extreme. As I said before, I do wish you would realise just what it is you are saying. Take care and whatever you do, keep wetting your pants.

Cnon88

[quietpr]

I'm not claiming the rest of the world revolves around America Cnon...

But evidence suggests that in the realm of entertainment, America does sort of, by virtue of its size and wealth, finalize major changes in the order of society.

This is not tgo claim that other countries don't beat America to it...but which movies hold the world records for attendence? American films do.

Which television shows are watched by the most people world wide. American television is most watched.

Which news sources are the most widely reported in the world? American news sources once again top the list in readership and viewing audience.

So in this case...where we're waiting for some major public outlet to do a story featuring outright watersports as a sexual thing...to affect the most people world wide and get the most attention, it's going to have to get its foothold in America...American film or television.

The UK already has featured watersports-ish topics on a number of occasions as many here will attest...and nothing has happened for us. It's very common in Germany and Sweden in the pornography and adult themed entertainment venues and still nothing.

So other countries have obviously beaten America to this change by a long margin...but to really affect the most people and bring about the end of the tyranical repression of watersports in the media...it must catch on in America.

[Anonymous]

America as a nation where 98% of us had some relative immigrate. So we take the best and worst from every place and make a mostly greater and sometimes worse whole. But I do have to say that as far as our fetish the Brits have us beat and in sexuality in general the Europeans are way ahead of us.

[quietpr]

I agree Fillerup...

As I've said 5 times in this thread...locally in other countries...especially the UK, Sweden and Germany, watersports has come a lot further in the media.

But despite those regions being way ahead of the US...you still don't find many people stumbling onto watersports after watching a TV hsow or movie with that content.

It's going to have to appear on the biggest possible viewing audience before it really gets accepted.

[Anonymous]

Let me ask you a question. What is the population of the United States? About 290 million, right? What's the combined population of Europe and Asia? About 3 billion? What viewing audience were you saying was the largest again? By the way, you said it 3 times, not 5. Keep those pants wet.

Cnon88

[quietpr]

Unfortunately for you Cnon...you have your facts wrong.

While America's population is only 275 million or so and the combined population of Europe and Asias is abuot 4 billion, you can throw out China because they aren't allowed to have access to any media product that doesn't come form their ultra-tyranical communist government...so there's 1.5 billion right ther...

And then you have the problem that American media products are disceminated throughout the world...usually reaching as many as 4 billion people by the time they're done circulating with the standard 2 year delay time.

And foreign media products aren't generally shared in this manner...

The population of Germnay gets German TV, the population of the UK gets UK TV and some outlets from France and Germany many...along with a huge presence of American TV. France mostly gets French TV. India gets almost exclusively Indian, and UK TV...etc.

And let me ask you THIS question Cnon...what is the higest grossing non-American film, and how much did it make...

And what is the highest grossing American film and how much did IT make.

The difference is dramatic and convincing.

[Anonymous]

Okay, we were talking about where the largest audiences are and which movies make the most money. The highest grossing movie of all time is Titanic from 1997, an American movie (produced by James Cameron, a Canadian, and starring Kate Winslet, a Brit). It earned $1.8 billion. The highest grossing foreign film of all time is Harry Potter and The Sorceror's Stone from the U.K. It earned $965 million. That's about half what Titanic made. I concede that American films are more popular. But then I never said they weren't.

Now, here's where it gets interesting. Of the $1.8 billion that Titanic made, $600 million of that was earned in the United States. Which means that the remaining $1.2 billion was made over the rest of the world. Of the $965 million that Harry Potter made, $317 million was earned in the United States, with the remaining $648 million earned over the rest of the world. The source of this information is the Internet Movie Database Inc. (www.imdb.com), an American website.

What this proves is that the larger audience is the rest of the world, not America. So why then does the social change have to take place in America in order to be accepted internationally? Granted, American movies are the most widely viewed, but it is all those billions of foriegn people viewing them that will ultimately decide, not Americans. Granted also, Americans will play a large part in it, but it will not be Americans alone who will decide and ultimately make it happen.

Make no mistake, I have no major dispute with the people of the United States. I am merely pointing something out. That is all. Take care and keep those pants wet, whatever you do.

Cnon88

[Anonymous]

How does the Indian Movie industry known as "Bollywood" fit into this?

[wetbvds]

Hey every body...., lets not for get the most important thing here.

ENJOY your peeing pleasures...., you've done all this time with out the worlds acceptance. So what the heck PEE and be happy images/smiles/icon_smile.gif images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

I think that we are the lucky ones........, we can get great pleasure doing very simple things.

"Stay wet and have fun" (I will images/smiles/icon_wink.gif )

[quietpr]

But you see...you just made my POINT Cnon!

The power of the American audience is NOT the American people or how much THEY watch our movie products.

The power is that the rest of the world watches American products MORE than they watch foreign products.

Of the 965 million dollars spent to watch Harry Potter and the Sourcerer's Stone, 650 million of it was spent in America.

So that leaves about 300 million spent in the rest of the world...meaning that the closest foreign film to the most popular American film abroad received ONE QUARTER of the viewing audience of the American counterpart!

That aught to tell you something about the power of the American entertainment industry and how it compares to the power of other markets.

Similarly, in the world of Television. The highest gross viewing audience for any foreign produced television show receives about a third of the total viewing audience of American shows like Seinfeld (even though I hated that show), or M*A*S*H, or ER...if you include the audiences from around the world that watch the show at a later date.

So thanks for making my point beautifully.

[Anonymous]

Quietpr,

You said,


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Of the 965 million dollars spent to watch Harry Potter and the Sourcerer's Stone, 650 million of it was spent in America.

So that leaves about 300 million spent in the rest of the world...meaning that the closest foreign film to the most popular American film abroad received ONE QUARTER of the viewing audience of the American counterpart!<hr></blockquote>

I'm afraid you've got this the wrong way around. $650 million was spent on Harry Potter by the rest of the world, with $300 million spent in the United States. This can be verified by visiting http://www.imdb.com and checking their all tiime box office listings there. Also, of the $1.8 billion spent on Titanic, $600 million was spent in the United States while $1.2 billion was spent over the rest of the world.

So while American movies are the most widely viewed, the only reason they are is because the rest of the world views them as well. I haven't really made your point, not the way you are saying I have at least. The larger viewing audience is the rest of the world, not America. Granted, the most widely viewed movies will have the most impact, and in this case it's American movies. All movies and information media have an impact on social change in one form or another.

You said that countries like Britain, Sweden and Germany are way ahead of America when it comes to exposure in popular media of watersports, and yet nothing really has happened with regards to watersports becoming more socially acceptable. This is quite true, you have a valid point here. One must keep in mind however that this is only three countries in the entire world that have made steps in that direction. There are approximately 200 countries in the world. Do you really think that American information media can affect social change in that many countries?

It's going to take considerable exposure in the popular media of most countries in the world in order to make pants wetting socially acceptable on a wide scale and to the point where we would like it to be. America and American media will help, there's no question about that. But it can't do it alone.

Cnon88

[quietpr]

Well I wouldn't make the claim that an AMerican watersports in the media movement would fix the entire world and get us all on the right track...

But indeed I have made the case I need to make to demonstrate that while the larger "viewing audience" in is the non-American audience, the only media outlet to reach the entire free world is the American one. You can't get UK TV here in the states with the exception of BBC America.

You can't get French or erman TV here at all. You can't get Spanish TV outside of North America and Spain.

You can't get ANYTHING from markets that aren't either the UK or the United States to reach an audience sufficiently large enough to really have a major global impact.

An American social change in favor of the acceptance of watersports won't completely solve our problems, but as I stated in my original post...it could set into motion a chain reaction of events that lead to a louder minority and help saturate (Heh!) the media markets elsewhere with at least an exposure to the concept of watersports...giving more people the freedom to give it a shot.

[Anonymous]

cnon 88, i fully agree with your thoughts. i too have excatly the same problem, except in a post-teenage way (i'm 22 by the way). my family would fully object to me doing the things i like, but if you have a talent, then you should be able to express it!
although you listen to your parents, you should remember to BE YOURSELF. once you live without them, their rules go down the toilet through a pair of freshly peed panties thank you very much. Who cares about your parents when you have left them?

no one knows who i am. neither do i, to be honest... although i soon hope to change that...
anon. git

[Anonymous]

Quietpr,

Well, I think we're pretty much in agreement on most things now wouldn't you say? I thank you for a spirited debate, I enjoyed it very much. Some good points were raised on both sides and in the end I believe we have settled it amicably enough. Take care of yourself, keep posting your valuable input, and of course, keep those pants wet.

Cnon88

[quietpr]

I believe so...

This debate was a hoot..so thanks. images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

And I hope you stick around as well.

[Anonymous]

Interesting debate but alas getting a little pedantic and missing some thing along the way. Sexual.erotic, sensual -whatever it is that drives the personal motivation for wetting, surely that is the main concern. True whilst it is not { by and large } focused upon even in the kinds of TV programmes that take a look at sexual variety there isnt a law against it. Yes there are far worse things done in the name of humanity, justice and love of country than pissing your pants. In fact I cant think of any occasion when it would be appropriate to piss-pants for ones country--but for ones own pleasure and that of others--Yes Sir or Madam. However if it was less of a taboo nurtured no doubt through the inevitable conditiooning that accompanies--" been brought up " more people might be inclined to indulge. That however is wishful speculation because it just might be that a lot of people would not wish to indulge in wetting because they find ituncomfortable. It may be that the prefered wetters of the world are just downright kinky or perhaps they are just special in their sensitivity to the subtle and sensual pleasures that wetting provides. This is a much more positive and affirmative view to be shared and developed along with the activity itself. Therein lies the sophistication of the Desperation and Wetting interest. It is subtle and it is at times intense in the way that it can be so focused and guided by individual imagination and inventiveness. The fact that it need not be a prelude to standard sexual physical contact but can be rewarding and fulfilling in itself expands the nature of our sexuality and its possibilities--widens the horizons as it were. As an indulgence it is for those involved { at its best } fantastic. You need not have someone else around to make it viable and satisfying. It is self indulgent it the best possible way without the need to feel obliged to persuade any one else to join in . The wetter is in complete control even if the point of the excercise is to loose control. At this point I have to admit that it would be great if more people were into iy. If for instancethere was a large hidden population who wished " desperately " to come out of the " closet " and be indulgent without fear of ridicule, prosecution or imprisonment. Just imagine if the situation was the other way around and the norm was to " go in your pants " The weekly shopping at the supperstore or even the corner shop would be punctuated by comments about the odd few individuals who were not wetting their pants. {Arent they odd and peculiar} but to be kinder to them it would be best to consider that { They have no idea what they are missing } So to end on this lighter note--it is about a very special and ultimately harmless enjoyment that the rest of society has not caught up with. All the best and keep flooding in ways that you enjoy-- AQUA VITAE :

[Anonymous]

Good heavens. I have been away on my hollibobs and it seems things have gotten pretty technical while I have been away.

However, I disagree with all of this, but I have no facts to back myself up, just my own experience.

You may like to think that pants peeing will become mainstream soon, however it starts, but I think not, because although there are many who might be sympathetic, there will always be others who will do anything to get power over individuals, and these people will continue to accuse you of being sick and depraved until you crack, because they will then claim superiority, which is what they crave. I know this as it has happened to me already, which is why I am so paranoid about being found out again.

If there was a latent desire for public peeing in the majority, then I cant see why it has died out, when in olden days it was probably the norm.
And I am sorry quietpr, but so imply that it will start in the USA is rather laughable, when American society seems to be heading in the opposite direction. No one seems to go to the toilet or lavatory there any more, they go to the bathroom or the restroom, or they make a comfort stop or whatever else they have come up with. This is speech designed to cut out even the slightest hint of bodily functions. I always smile when reading someone writing 'I was on a coach without a bathroom'. I always imagine a bath, sink etc.
It has gone so far with women, that it becomes very hard to imagine them in the lav. Can you get an image of Jennifer Lopez producing a steaming brown pile every morning?
Nah, public/pants peeing is an extreme minority fetish and youn had better get used to that. images/smiles/icon_razz.gif

[quietpr]

To Crazyhorse...

I wouldn't claim that pants wetting will ever be "normal" but it for some reason has a less esteemed place in society than things like fisting, redwings, S&M, bondage, foot fetishes...

Which really makes no sense to me. I expect we'll see watersports emerge in the media more frequently in the future...as one of those curious fetishes that people like to engage in sometimes...and I expect it will because every bit as excepted as other kinks in sex play.

[Anonymous]

To quietpr


It will appear on American television directly (rather than the careful and quiet references made about peeing in popular media today),

This is what you said in your first post.


I wouldn't claim that pants wetting will ever be "normal"

This your last post.

I rest my case.

[quietpr]

Ummm...things that appear on American Television directly are not necessarily "normal".

LOL

There's a big difference between taking a risk and being edgey, and having the same kind of thing appear regularly.