Anonymous
Wed, 24 Oct 01, 3:36 AM
I am not really speaking for Trickles although it may appear that I am, that is not my intent...ok?
If you go back to Trickles and the first 'good bye' post you will see that Trickles clearly states that Trickles beleives that sex/fetishes/desires according to God's word should be between a husband and a wife.
No where in that post does Trickles make any remarks that this desire(topics on this board) are wrong according to God's word. In fact, I personally have not found any scripture that says that desperation, peeing etc is wrong according to God's word.
Now I know that you don't believe that there is a God, but I will quote and comment from your post. You posted first and I feel the need to respond.
'you remind me of some of the reasons that I don't believe. I can't believe in a God who makes people with various kinks and then makes them feel guilty if they respond to their nature'
First off, you know more about a living God then you want to admit. Second it is not a God that makes one feel guilty. It is the knowledge of right and wrong and doing the 'wrong' that causes our guilt, this doesn't matter if it was our dad that said no ball throwing in the house, and then we did, and broke something. GUILT IS GUILT put guilt in it's proper perspective.
'Yes, if there is a God he makes murderers and people whose kinks sexual make them want sex with children- again, to me this just illustrates that there is no God involved in such things'
God created us with a free will. God did not make murderers or child molesters. Adam and Eve started it don't blame God. Put the blame where it belongs. Regardless of that, the child molester has a free will, he has chosen to not follow God's word, but his own free will. So take it back two steps-say there is no God, we still have free will and we will still feel guilt. Regardless of how we got here.
'Over the years.....Christian attitude to sex is not so much 'pure' as an abuse of people's innermost feelings. Obviosly Christian views on these matters tend to vary a lot, but typically the idea is that sex is really only for procreation and that anything kinky or outside marriage is sinful'
Gee, if sex was not for pleasure assuming the rate of sexual acts vs actually conceiving do you realize how many children I would have. That is truely a false statement. God did give us the act of sexual intercourse as an act of pleasure, notice how close a woman feels towards you afterwards? God's only comment is not to refuse your partner unless they are in prayer...sorry girls no head aches...but, boy can I pray with a headache...only kidding...lol.
'thus they tell homosexual people that because they can't get married they should live celibate lives.'
No, that is not true, Christians will lead the homosexual to the Lord. I for one in a pentacostle church know of three homosexuals. What does the bible say, not to lay down with the same sex. Why does God tell us that....look at what happens to the homosexual...aids and other sexually transmitted yuck. Believing in creation by a living God, I know/believe that he knew that if two men/women were to be sexual together that he also knew the outcome. Let me tell ya it is very hard to watch a very good friend that you have had for life die of aids. I will not condemn the life style nor will I condone it. But, a very special person in my life died, a very nasty and wicked death. Just like in Leviticus how God laid forth all of the rules, they were a very dirty nation, he saw the disease. He warned them-same with the Homosexual. He warns us for our protection.
'Sometimes the very priests who tell them that have broken their own vows of celibacy by abusing kids in their church'
Sad fact but it does happen. Do you really believe that it is GOD making them do this? Can't you see that we have free will? Just like the person who sexually abused me. God did not say...hey fred .... molest her. It was free will.
'I think it is natural for people to feel somewhat coy about their sexual feelings and particularly about any kinks they may have, and that Christianity and some other religions play on that by making their followers feel guilt for the way they were made(wheher by God or otherwise). That way people concentrate on their terrible fallen nature and never get around to thinking 'Do I really believe this account of the world'.
What a powerful statement. I am in awe at how you put that into words. I bet many here can sense the feeling that you have portrayed. Ya know it even stumped me for a time. I was raised Lutheran, my hubby was raised catholic. We have gone to other denominations and now reside basically in the pentacostle religion. I do not have much knowledge on other religions though I do have some basic understanding. I do know that in the three mentioned above. I was never lead to believe that I was guilty other than the fact of sex before marriage. The comment that really throws me though is the comment 'That way people concentrate on their terrible fallen nature and never get around to thinking 'Do I really believe this account of the world?'. OOOH that is good. Almost by that comment I can pinpoint not only your age but also your religion. Go back my friend...it is not like that any longer.
'Yes, there ARE sins in this World, but they are such things as arms manufacture, a trade system which lets part of the world go hungry, using religion to make people hate each other, abusing kids, selling drugs- not the immoratlity of wetting for fun-get real!'
David you are so right, really! I do not believe though that 'using religion to make people hate each other' is correct. But, the just of that sentence I belive is correct. I don't believe that there is any thing wrong with the whole wetting/desperation etc subject in the Lords eyes. I really don't. I thought it was horrible, dirty you name it. But, within ones own personal life. With the man that I have married I think that it is ACCORDING TO GODS WORD.
God, My God, only wants for us to know him and be healthy and happy. What Trickles was trying to say -Remember I am not speaking for her- I think is that God places a very High Standard on marriage. It should be reserved only for the married couple, not shared. It sounds to me as if Trickles is not married and is looking forward to the day of marriage that the desires of the heart will be shared with that special person. And ya know what....God says many times in his word that he 'knows the desire of our heart'.
One more note here David. You impress me. More than you know. Go back and reread your post. 5 times you used the word 'god' in the correct way 'God', you also captialized Christianity. God does not think that this fetish is wrong. I am convinced of this. Lust is. People judging is. David you have been there...you know what I am talking about go back.
Now then I end my gospel hour....
love ya
T.
If you go back to Trickles and the first 'good bye' post you will see that Trickles clearly states that Trickles beleives that sex/fetishes/desires according to God's word should be between a husband and a wife.
No where in that post does Trickles make any remarks that this desire(topics on this board) are wrong according to God's word. In fact, I personally have not found any scripture that says that desperation, peeing etc is wrong according to God's word.
Now I know that you don't believe that there is a God, but I will quote and comment from your post. You posted first and I feel the need to respond.
'you remind me of some of the reasons that I don't believe. I can't believe in a God who makes people with various kinks and then makes them feel guilty if they respond to their nature'
First off, you know more about a living God then you want to admit. Second it is not a God that makes one feel guilty. It is the knowledge of right and wrong and doing the 'wrong' that causes our guilt, this doesn't matter if it was our dad that said no ball throwing in the house, and then we did, and broke something. GUILT IS GUILT put guilt in it's proper perspective.
'Yes, if there is a God he makes murderers and people whose kinks sexual make them want sex with children- again, to me this just illustrates that there is no God involved in such things'
God created us with a free will. God did not make murderers or child molesters. Adam and Eve started it don't blame God. Put the blame where it belongs. Regardless of that, the child molester has a free will, he has chosen to not follow God's word, but his own free will. So take it back two steps-say there is no God, we still have free will and we will still feel guilt. Regardless of how we got here.
'Over the years.....Christian attitude to sex is not so much 'pure' as an abuse of people's innermost feelings. Obviosly Christian views on these matters tend to vary a lot, but typically the idea is that sex is really only for procreation and that anything kinky or outside marriage is sinful'
Gee, if sex was not for pleasure assuming the rate of sexual acts vs actually conceiving do you realize how many children I would have. That is truely a false statement. God did give us the act of sexual intercourse as an act of pleasure, notice how close a woman feels towards you afterwards? God's only comment is not to refuse your partner unless they are in prayer...sorry girls no head aches...but, boy can I pray with a headache...only kidding...lol.
'thus they tell homosexual people that because they can't get married they should live celibate lives.'
No, that is not true, Christians will lead the homosexual to the Lord. I for one in a pentacostle church know of three homosexuals. What does the bible say, not to lay down with the same sex. Why does God tell us that....look at what happens to the homosexual...aids and other sexually transmitted yuck. Believing in creation by a living God, I know/believe that he knew that if two men/women were to be sexual together that he also knew the outcome. Let me tell ya it is very hard to watch a very good friend that you have had for life die of aids. I will not condemn the life style nor will I condone it. But, a very special person in my life died, a very nasty and wicked death. Just like in Leviticus how God laid forth all of the rules, they were a very dirty nation, he saw the disease. He warned them-same with the Homosexual. He warns us for our protection.
'Sometimes the very priests who tell them that have broken their own vows of celibacy by abusing kids in their church'
Sad fact but it does happen. Do you really believe that it is GOD making them do this? Can't you see that we have free will? Just like the person who sexually abused me. God did not say...hey fred .... molest her. It was free will.
'I think it is natural for people to feel somewhat coy about their sexual feelings and particularly about any kinks they may have, and that Christianity and some other religions play on that by making their followers feel guilt for the way they were made(wheher by God or otherwise). That way people concentrate on their terrible fallen nature and never get around to thinking 'Do I really believe this account of the world'.
What a powerful statement. I am in awe at how you put that into words. I bet many here can sense the feeling that you have portrayed. Ya know it even stumped me for a time. I was raised Lutheran, my hubby was raised catholic. We have gone to other denominations and now reside basically in the pentacostle religion. I do not have much knowledge on other religions though I do have some basic understanding. I do know that in the three mentioned above. I was never lead to believe that I was guilty other than the fact of sex before marriage. The comment that really throws me though is the comment 'That way people concentrate on their terrible fallen nature and never get around to thinking 'Do I really believe this account of the world?'. OOOH that is good. Almost by that comment I can pinpoint not only your age but also your religion. Go back my friend...it is not like that any longer.
'Yes, there ARE sins in this World, but they are such things as arms manufacture, a trade system which lets part of the world go hungry, using religion to make people hate each other, abusing kids, selling drugs- not the immoratlity of wetting for fun-get real!'
David you are so right, really! I do not believe though that 'using religion to make people hate each other' is correct. But, the just of that sentence I belive is correct. I don't believe that there is any thing wrong with the whole wetting/desperation etc subject in the Lords eyes. I really don't. I thought it was horrible, dirty you name it. But, within ones own personal life. With the man that I have married I think that it is ACCORDING TO GODS WORD.
God, My God, only wants for us to know him and be healthy and happy. What Trickles was trying to say -Remember I am not speaking for her- I think is that God places a very High Standard on marriage. It should be reserved only for the married couple, not shared. It sounds to me as if Trickles is not married and is looking forward to the day of marriage that the desires of the heart will be shared with that special person. And ya know what....God says many times in his word that he 'knows the desire of our heart'.
One more note here David. You impress me. More than you know. Go back and reread your post. 5 times you used the word 'god' in the correct way 'God', you also captialized Christianity. God does not think that this fetish is wrong. I am convinced of this. Lust is. People judging is. David you have been there...you know what I am talking about go back.
Now then I end my gospel hour....
love ya
T.