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Warm Lemonade
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 6:44 AM
Scary, since whenever the born again religious fanatics want something, Bush usually gives it to them.

From http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-porn23nov23,1,5752587.story?coll=la-headlines-nation. Pasted for those of you too lazy to register :wink:

U.S. Anti-Porn Effort Is Found Wanting
Obscenity foes say their support for Atty. Gen. John Ashcroft hasn't translated into the aggressive crackdown they expected.
By Richard B. Schmitt
Times Staff Writer


November 23, 2003

WASHINGTON — Sometimes, Phil Burress wonders whether his faith in John Ashcroft was misplaced.

Three years ago, the anti-porn activist was looking to Ashcroft and the Justice Department to wage an aggressive crackdown on smut. Federal obscenity prosecutions had flagged during the Clinton administration.

The new attorney general, with his fervent Christian credentials, looked to be the ideal warrior to take on the nation's burgeoning and multibillion-dollar pornography industry.

"We thought, 'It is not going to take a long time to get this back up to speed,' " said Burress, who heads the Cincinnati group Citizens for Community Values, which started in the heyday of federal obscenity suits in the 1980s.

Today, the odds of a major federal revival in prosecuting porn appear to be fading. The Justice Department has picked up the pace and is filing more suits, but it has been mainly targeting smaller distributors that deal in the most radical fare. One exhibit: A North Hollywood adult-film maker called Extreme Associates that produces movies depicting fictional rapes and murders of women was indicted in August.

Critics said the strategy ignores the explosion of graphic sexual content that has become readily available over the Internet and elsewhere and that has become the porn industry's bread and butter.

Justice Department officials said they must pick their targets carefully because of scarce resources and the agency's all-consuming war on terrorism. But they also strongly defend their record to date and say more prosecutions are in the works.

Civil liberties groups have declared Ashcroft's tenure a disaster, primarily because of his department's response to the Sept. 11 attacks, including the detention and deportation of hundreds of illegal immigrants.

But it has also turned out to be a mixed blessing for the Christian right and other conservatives, who have long supported Ashcroft and whom Bush was looking to mollify when he named Ashcroft attorney general in December 2000.

In Ashcroft, "conservatives celebrated what they thought marked the end of hard-core's unchecked reign" says an article in the December issue of Citizen, the monthly magazine published by Focus on the Family, the Colorado Springs, Colo., evangelical ministry. "But now, almost three years into Ashcroft's tenure, those celebrations have given way to disappointment."The debate over the pace of obscenity suits shows the crucial role of career Justice Department employees and how they respond to political pressure. The department's top obscenity cop, while hand-picked by Ashcroft, is also a Justice Department veteran who has resisted much of the political heat.

Besides pornography, conservatives are chafing at the department's record on abortion, including a decision last year to follow through on the prosecution of a Washington-area abortion foe that stemmed from a prayer vigil outside a women's clinic. The case was originally filed during the Clinton administration.The defendant, Patrick Mahoney, who heads a group called the Christian Defense Coalition, said he and his attorney believed that the new Justice Department would let the case drop. Instead, government attorneys went back to the trial court to seek a new injunction. Mahoney, who said he attended prayer meetings with Ashcroft when Ashcroft was in the Senate, was surprised to find himself "praying he wouldn't put me in jail." Ultimately, he signed a consent order restricting his activities.

Justice Department spokesman Mark Corallo said the concerns being expressed by conservative groups illustrate how the Justice Department under Ashcroft has been applying the law evenhandedly.

"During his confirmation, the attorney general pledged to enforce federal law evenly, fairly and uniformly across the nation," he said. "In making good on that pledge, certain political groups on both sides of the political spectrum were bound to have disagreements with him from time to time."

But Ashcroft's battles with the right have made him a more divisive figure at a time when his public approval ratings have been slipping and when he has become an issue in the presidential campaign. A Harris Poll taken last month found that Ashcroft's favorable ratings dipped to 42% from 57% six months earlier.

Conservative activists say they don't want to be seen as adding to what they perceive to be the public tarring of the attorney general from the left. But they are also troubled by some of the things that he has done.

Connie Mackey, chief lobbyist for the Family Research Council, said her group, among others, fears that a section of the terror-fighting Patriot Act could be used to prosecute anti-abortion activists.

The push to enlist the new attorney general in the anti-porn battle began soon after he took office. Burress, the Cincinnati activist, organized a private meeting with Ashcroft three months after he was confirmed. Among those attending were representatives of about a dozen anti-porn groups, including Morality in Media and the American Family Assn.

The coalition was starved for action: Under former Atty. General Janet Reno, obscenity enforcement focused mainly on child pornography.

Burress and the other leaders were looking to Ashcroft to change the terms of the debate — much like Edwin Meese III did in the 1980s when, as President Reagan's attorney general, he appointed a national commission on pornography and the department flooded the courts with suits that resulted in a number of high-profile porn operators going to prison.

Besides philosophy, some also saw the issue in political terms: The groups had formed a bedrock of support for Ashcroft when Senate Democrats sought to torpedo his nomination during his confirmation hearings in 2001. Now, they were looking for quid pro quo.

"Having gotten him through, there were certain expectations about how aggressively he would pursue a number of things, one of them being the enforcement of obscenity laws," said one conservative activist who requested anonymity.

The anti-porn coalition lobbied Ashcroft to choose an obscenity prosecutor from the 1980s to lead what they hoped would be a bold new initiative. In a further effort to jump-start the process, it pulled together a list of U.S. attorneys who had prosecuted obscenity cases and who could file suits right away.

Justice Department officials, however, said they felt like they were starting from scratch. The dearth of obscenity suits filed under Reno had left a void of prosecutors with experience in the area. The rise of the Internet as an outlet for porn presented new and different investigative challenges, compared with shutting down bricks-and-mortar arcades and video stores.

The test for what constituted illegal porn — whether under "contemporary community standards" the material is patently offensive and lacks serious artistic or literary merit — had been set in 1973 by the U.S. Supreme Court. But those standards and public attitudes about porn have also changed.

"It's a totally different investigation requiring totally different skills than 20 years ago," said John Malcolm, a deputy assistant attorney general who oversees the department's child exploitation and obscenity section.

The section started gearing up, hiring high-tech computer sleuths and holding retreats where prosecutors were taught how to build a successful obscenity case. With just 18 lawyers, the unit also scrambled for resources, which were scarce after Sept. 11. The unit also oversees cases involving child prostitution and human trafficking.

But that deliberate, methodical approach was not what the anti-porn interests had in mind.

Burress began needling Justice Department officials in private meetings and at White House functions, passing along electronic links to pornographic Web sites that were "just laying out there" ready to be prosecuted. A self-described former porn addict, Burress believes that the government should be locking up "white-collar pornographers" like Internet service providers that facilitate pornographic spam and hotels that operate X-rated pay-per-view channels.

Last year, Morality in Media created a Web site — obscenitycrimes.org — where citizens can report what they consider Internet porn. The information is verified before being put in affidavit form by a retired FBI porn investigator and forwarded to the Justice Department for review. About 34,000 complaints have been lodged to date.

Another group, Concerned Women for America, which calls itself a pro-family lobby, began sending letters this spring to scores of U.S. attorneys offices around the country to see what they were doing about porn.

The response: "More excuses than answers," said Jan LaRue, the group's chief legal counsel.

It didn't help that Ashcroft spurned the groups' recommendations to head the department's obscenity section, instead selecting Andrew Oosterbaan, a respected prosecutor and trial attorney who had helped crack an international online child-porn ring.

Since the summer, the unit has had success in some high-profile cases, including the prosecution of a former Dallas policeman and his wife who were charged in June and convicted of marketing obscene videotapes over the Internet and the August indictment of Extreme Associates.

In September, federal authorities indicted members of a Texas family on racketeering and obscenity charges for operating a multimillion-dollar chain of adult bookstores and arcades in seven states. In all, about 20 convictions have been secured since 2001, and about 50 other investigations are ongoing.

Still, critics fear the moves are too little, too late.

"I fail to see how three additional years of inaction have contributed to an environment where obscenity convictions would be more likely," said Patrick Trueman, a consultant to the Family Research Council and a former federal obscenity prosecutor.

But Malcolm, of the Justice Department's criminal division, said critics do not fully appreciate the difference between being outraged at the growing exposure of porn in society and making a federal case out of it. On the latter score, he said, the department has made great strides.

"They are not setting our enforcement strategy. But I understand their frustration," he said of the anti-porn interest groups. "I am glad they are giving us their input."[/url]

Anonymous
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 9:20 AM
Interesting. Speaking as a Christian, although by no means a religious fanatic, I would say that each community, in framing its laws, has to decide where the line is drawn between what it deems to be acceptable and unacceptable literature/entertainment. Deciding exactly where the line should be drawn isn't an easy science and what's acceptable in some parts of say northern Europe may not be acceptable in the American 'Bible Belt' for example. My view, for what it's worth, is that the law rightly draws the line at the portrayal of acts which aren't consensual and between consenting adults. However it should not interfere with adults enjoying depictions of harmless, consensual acts between consenting adults.

:wink: :shock: :)

Warm Lemonade
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 9:47 AM
My view, for what it's worth, is that the law rightly draws the line at the portrayal of acts which aren't consensual and between consenting adults.

You mean you agree that FAKED rape scenes should land you in jail? We're not talking abuot misdemeanors and traffic tickets here, we're talking about JAIL.

There's a web site I know of that features 3D art that, for the most part, is pretty good, but it also includes 3D rape scenes. Should these also be illegal? Some of the rape scenes are homosexual, should that be more illegal or less illegal? Maybe it should be more illegal if the homosexual is in military uniform (DONT ASK DONT TELL)!!

And when you talk about faked stuff, you could argue that posession of every one of Hustler's "Barely Legal" videos, the most popular series in the history of porn, should also be illegal, since they depict adult men having sex with teenager girls. Should these also be illegal?

Perhaps you could just make a list telling us what's okay and what's not okay.

BTW, regarding the 3D rape site, I will not give it's URL, since it contains a picture that depicts what is essentially a dead American soldier in Iraq, and refers to her as a "whore" that got what she deserved. They refused to remove the image and I cancelled my membership.

quietpr
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 10:08 AM
Faked rape scenes should indeed land you in jail.

Even though we all know it's fake...it most assuredly sends the wrong message to the viewers of that material and to the general public if stuff like that is legal.

However...I'm not in charge of that kind of policy making nationally or at the community level, and I fully agree with Adrian that it is up the COMMUNITIES to decide what's acceptible...there should NOT be a federal law on the books beyond the basic criminal elements (child porn, rape, snuff, and anything involving a (non-sex) criminal act). I am therefore not a real big supporter of that part of Bush's family values platform. I also don't agree with his stance on gay marriage, but that's another story.

He'll still get my vote in 2004 unless the Democrats come up someone who isn't a complete degenerate and who won't pull our tropps out of Iraq and leave those poor folks out there dangling AGAIN just like we did in 1991. We have got to stay in Iraq until the job is finished and they are stabalized...we owe it to them.

Sorry...I usually make it a policy not to do political commentary here anymore but this one got my attention.

I don't bote single-issue...just because Bush isn't perfect...doesn't meet my criteria for the perfect president...doesn't mean he's not fit for the job. At the very least...I don't feel nearly as unsafe with him around than I did with Clinton.

Anonymous
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 7:33 PM
Warm Lemonade. Any portrayal of the kind of things you referred to whether real or fake is wrong in my opinion because apart from the question of diminishing people they feed the wrong kind of instincts. That's quite apart from any other considerations.

:x

Crazyhorse
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 8:29 PM
I cant quite get my head around why anyone would want to fake a rape scene, except if the people watching enjoy it. And how can you enjoy watching a fake rape, but not a real one?
I wonder if straight men were subjected to male rape on a regular basis, in dark alleys or parks at night, they would be rather more understanding of what an horrific trauma this must be for a woman. :cry: :(

quietpr
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 9:10 PM
...I'm sorry but I don't understand at ALL why anyone would get a kick out of a rape scene...*shudder*

And those that do have a problem and should seek help.

And those that feed that kind of twisted fantasy should be prosecuted.

Warm Lemonade
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 9:32 PM
...I'm sorry but I don't understand at ALL why anyone would get a kick out of a rape scene...*shudder*

Neither do I, but I'm sure there's people that enjoy rape scenes wondering "how can anyone get a kick out of getting peed on..."


I wonder if straight men were subjected to male rape on a regular basis, in dark alleys or parks at night, they would be rather more understanding of what an horrific trauma this must be for a woman.

Actually, the majority of rape victims are believed to be men, I've seen statistics as high as 90% (occuring mainly in the military and in prison).

Crazyhorse
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 10:03 PM
Yes, and I know I am in danger of stating the obvious, but getting peed on does not involve sexual penetration that is not wanted under any circumstances by the recipient.

In my opinion there should be no debate here. Rape is an extreme sexual violation of another person against their will.
Why should anyone be subjected to this? let alone watch videos of people faking it?

DavidEngland99
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 10:15 PM
I am very, very far from a religious fanatic, but I dont like faked rape scenes at all. I fear that they may excite some men who are resisting a tendency to behave badly towards women and push them over the edge.

If I were making the laws on these things I would chuck out more or less all violence - including rape - and acts involving children, and show everything consensual.

David

quietpr
Mon, 24 Nov 03, 11:30 PM
I just recently saw a show (I know it's the exception and not the rule but it bears mentioning) about a sex addict who went on a raping spree after years of watching that kind of stuff in porn. His acts were identical to the acts in his collection only real, not faked.

It can happen...Fake rape and anything involving violence (that includes SM if it causes actual injury...) are a danger to public safety and must be eliminated...everything else cannot possibly be argued to be a danger to public safety (except kiddie porn obviously) and therefore no freedom loving American would want them banned.

Val
Tue, 25 Nov 03, 12:23 AM
As a basic rule, I worry about faked rape and various other acts like bestiality and the kind of people who associate sex with that kind of violence. Though restraint, bondage, desperation of all sorts turn me right on, outright violence turns me off. Maybe it's different if you're the one being whatevered. I worry in fact more than about teenagers since legal age varies between nations and states. But I don't see how porn can be silenced without silencing non-porn. This sort of thing has happened (I'm glad to say!) where protesters have themselves been prosecuted for displaying obscene images. The moment it got applied to porn films, apart from sending the whole thing to Brazil and Kazakhstan, somebody would invoke it against mainstream cinema and we'd be back to the Hayes Code. Which is probably what these people really want.

There is an excitement in semi-involuntary sex. That is the where limits are trusted but details are beyond what you'd do normally - Insex stuff. I definitely envy women there, both for being able to enjoy it and for men wanting to watch them when you don't get women interested in putting men through it :twisted:

quietpr
Tue, 25 Nov 03, 1:58 AM
...between mainstream cinema and porn.

In mainstream cinema, violence ALWAYS has a context...a plot...a reason for happening. Every movie I've ever seen at the Hollywood level has some struggle between good guys and bad guys...or at least between people with differing viewpoints (the best kind) where the viewer is asked to decide who they're chearing for. All violent acts on screen have a context where someone who has a mnoral compass can easily get a picture of what is right or wrong.

Porn on the other hand unilaterally depicts every act as "good"...it's designed to please only...and written generally without a real plot or real characters. And THAT is why restrictions on porn against violent acts in the sexual context can be justified where those same restrictions on Hollywood cannot.

DavidEngland99
Tue, 25 Nov 03, 10:42 PM
Quietpr,

I would remove rape scenes from ordinary cinema too. Just as we swap details of films containing wetting scenes, I would guess that the wrong kind of men would savour the rape scenes in some films.

To the extent that they would try to ban rape scenes and similar stuff, I would actually support the religious right. The real problem with those people is that they would carry on and ban the depiction of loving sexual acts (straight, gay, or kinky!). Indeed, they would try to stuff us all back into the hypocritical nonsense of the past!

David

Anonymous
Wed, 26 Nov 03, 3:52 AM
I would remove rape scenes from ordinary cinema too.


Well, David, does it mean you would remove the rape scene from the movie "Boys don´t cry" (starring Hillary Swanks) as well? WHY?????

Warm Lemonade
Wed, 26 Nov 03, 5:26 AM
Hi Matt

Disturbing, isnt it, how these freedom loving Americans are so willing to ban a fetish sex act that occurs between CONSENTING ADULTS, but at the same time, want videos of people pissing on each other to be legal. Can we say HYPOCRISY? Yes, children, I think we can.


He'll still get my vote in 2004 unless the Democrats come up someone who isn't a complete degenerate and who won't pull our tropps out of Iraq

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? You want us to STAY THERE? QuietPr, I like you, so dont take this as a personal attack, but I have one word for all you college kids that think we should have troups in vietn ... oops sorry ... iraq... and that word is:





DRAFT


If it were YOUR asses that are over there dying for something that has absolutely nothing to do with America, you'd be the first ones demonstrating and singing Alice's Restaurant in front of your local Federal Courthouse.

quietpr
Wed, 26 Nov 03, 7:46 AM
That right there undermines your entire post...that's all I have to say.

Sorry, but they're nothing alike. And more importantly we have a president and military leaders that know what the hell they're doing this time...Vietnam was so horrific because the idiot president in charge of the war and his military advisors managed to so completely and utterly mis-manage the war that they made it impossible for us to win.

And I can personally guarantee you that if this were a draft war...I would go without question.

Because I know that in this war...we have a plan of attack...a method...a realistic set of goals. In Vitenam, all the VC had to do was duck into China or Laos and BAM...they're out of range...we absolutely refused to close off their travel routes in other countries...a move which proved to be our downfall.

As for the original topic at hand...I think banning rape and violence in the mainstream cinema would depend on context, but I'm generally against it because in most instances, the rape has a context that clearly depicts it is wrong and eminantly damaging to the victim. And more importantly the mainstream cinema is rated and scenes like that advertised...people know what they're getting into. Porn is general not rated (XXX doesn't count...LOL)...and the act is not depicted as wrong.

You have to draw a line somewhere retro...if you don't...it will go too far. If you want to call that hypocritical...be my guest.

Davy
Wed, 26 Nov 03, 7:31 PM
Sorry, but they're nothing alike. And more importantly we have a president and military leaders that know what the hell they're doing this time...

Sorry, but I just have to jump in here. How can you say that we have a president and military leaders that know what they're doing this time? Do you get your news only from Fox News? There's an incredible mess brewing over there because the only thing any of these bozos thought about was how to roll over a bunch of ill-trained Iraqi soldiers. Once they did that they haven't had a clue what to do (witness the scrambling around last month with the Bush crowd putting Ms. Rice in a stronger position.) I'm sorry, but I think this smacks of the exact same syndrome as the Viet Nam war. We are blinded by the propaganda and fail to see the big picture every time!


Vietnam was so horrific because the idiot president in charge of the war and his military advisors managed to so completely and utterly mis-manage the war that they made it impossible for us to win.

Which idiot president are you speaking of? There were four. Two Republicans and two Democrats.


Because I know that in this war...we have a plan of attack...a method...a realistic set of goals. In Vitenam, all the VC had to do was duck into China or Laos and BAM...they're out of range...we absolutely refused to close off their travel routes in other countries...a move which proved to be our downfall.

What is the plan of attack? What is the method? And what are these realistic set of goals? "Realistic" has never been a word one could apply to anything after the initial invasion. Maybe you are speaking of the goal of getting as much business for as many of Bush's contributors as possible. I'll have to concede that one to you.

I should get back to work.

Davy

Anonymous
Thu, 27 Nov 03, 1:34 AM
With respect to the "Iraq crisis", here´s an interesting article:

The Politics Of War
by William S. Lind
by William S. Lind



The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are already lost. Nothing the United States can do can yield an American victory in either place.

In all probability, both wars were lost before the first bomb was dropped or the first shot fired. They were lost because, in an era when the state is in decline, our wars on the Afghan and Iraqi states were doomed to be too successful. We fought to destroy two regimes, but what we ended up doing was destroying two states. Neither in Afghanistan nor in Iraq are we able to recreate the state, which means that Fourth Generation, non-state forces will come to dominate both places. And neither we nor any other state knows how to defeat Fourth Generation enemies.

To the degree America had a chance of real victory in either war, we lost that chance through early mistakes. In Afghanistan, we failed to bring the Pashtun into the new government, which means we remain allied with the Uzbeks and Tajiks against the Pashtun. Unfortunately, in the end the Pashtun always win Afghan wars.

In Iraq, the two fatal early errors were outlawing the Baath Party and disbanding the Iraqi army. Outlawing the Baath deprived the Sunni community of its only political vehicle, which meant it had no choice but to fight us. Disbanding the Iraqi army left us with no native force that could maintain order, and also provided the resistance with a large pool of armed and trained fighters. Washington is now making noises about reversing both of those early decisions, but it is simply too late. As von Moltke said, a mistake in initial dispositions can seldom be put right.

What is interesting is that the most powerful man in Washington, Karl Rove, who is President George W. Bush’s political advisor, has apparently figured out that the Iraq war is lost (Afghanistan is not on his political radar screen). Further, he has discerned that if Mr. Bush goes into the 2004 election with the war in Iraq still going on, and still going badly, Mr. Bush is toast. The result was the recent decision to turn the government back to the Iraqi’s sometime next summer.

Will it work? Probably not. Mr. Rove still faces two big fights, and neither will be easy. The first will be a nasty political brawl with the so-called neo-cons, more accurately neo-Jacobins, who gave us the Iraq War in the first place. Their political future is at stake in Iraq, and if we are defeated, they go straight into history’s wastebasket. They are determined to fight down to the last American paratrooper, and once they figure out that Mr. Rove wants out, they will go after him with everything they have.

The other fight will be in Iraq itself, where we will see a race between American efforts to create at least the fig leaf of a functioning Iraqi state so we can get out with some tail feathers intact and a resistance movement that is rapidly gaining strength. My bet is that, unfortunately, we will lose. Again, the root problem is that in a Fourth Generation world, once you have destroyed a state recreating it is very difficult. More, as is typical of a power facing defeat, our moves are too little and too late. By next summer, when we hope to transfer sovereignty to a new Iraqi government, it is likely to represent a frustration of the Shiites’ hope to use their majority status to create a Shiite Islamic Republic. That may deprive us, and the new Iraqi government, of the one prop we still have, a relatively quiescent Shiite population.

The upshot of all of this is that despite Mr. Rove’s belated wakening to political reality, Mr. Bush will go into the 2004 election with one of two albatrosses around his neck: a continuing, losing guerilla war, with ever-increasing American casualties, or an out-and-out American defeat, where we have left Iraq very much the way the Soviets left Afghanistan. Which is, by the way, the way we will also leave Afghanistan itself.

The neo-cons’ parting gift to real American conservatives will be President Hillary Clinton. Thanks a lot, guys.

November 26, 2003

William Lind is Director of the Center for Cultural Conservatism at the Free Congress Foundation.
--------------------------------------

Well, with all due respect to women´s rights, I definitely hate the idea that Hillary Clinton with all her ever expanding "socialist- nanny state" agenda would be the next U.S. president. So pleeease, do something!!! :)

Warm Lemonade
Thu, 27 Nov 03, 1:35 AM
Do you get your news only from Fox News?

LMAO - What a great line. :D

Anonymous
Thu, 27 Nov 03, 2:21 AM
Once you read this 1994 essay by the late Murray Rothbard, it will be clear to you why he still has such a wide following years after his death in 1995. An author and essayist on political economics, Rothbard taught at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas in the tradition of the Austrians Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich von Hayek. When he penned this essay, there was no one else I know of at the time who could see where we would be on Thanksgiving Day, 2003, as clearly as Rothbard did in this classic.

INVADE THE WORLD
By Murray N. Rothbard

When Communism and the Soviet Union collapsed several years ago, it seemed evident that a massive reevaluation of American foreign policy had to get under way. For the duration of the Cold War, U.S. foreign policy was simply a bipartisan interventionist crusade against the Soviet Union, and the only differences were precisely how far the global intervention should go.

But when the Soviet Union fell apart, a rethinking seemed absolutely necessary, since what could form the basis of U.S. policy now? But among the intellectual pundits and elites, the molders of U.S. and even world opinion, virtually no rethinking has occurred at all. Except for Pat Buchanan and us paleos, U.S. foreign policy had proceeded as usual, as if the Cold War collapse never happened. How? Buchanan and the "neo-isolationists" urged that American intervention be guided strictly by American national interest. But the liberal/neocon alliance, now tighter than ever before (now that Soviet Communism, which the neocons were harder on, has disappeared), pretended to agree, and then simply and cunningly redefined "national interest" to cover every ill, every grievance, under the sun. Is someone starving somewhere, however remote from our borders? That's a problem for our national interest. Is someone or some group killing some other group anywhere in the world? That's our national interest. Is some government not a "democracy" as defined by our liberal-neocon elites? That challenges our national interest. Is someone committing Hate Thought anywhere on the globe? That has to be solved in our national interest.

And so every grievance everywhere constitutes our national interest, and it becomes the obligation of good old Uncle Sam, as the Only Remaining Superpower and the world's designated Mr. Fixit, to solve each and every one of these problems. For "we cannot stand idly by" while anyone anywhere starves, hits someone over the head, is undemocratic, or commits a Hate Crime.

It should be clear that there is now virtually no foreign policy distinction between the liberals and the neocons, the Tony Lewises and Bill Safires, Commentary and the Washington Post. Wherever the problem is, the liberal-neocon pundits and laptop bombardiers are all invariably whooping it up for U.S. intervention, for outright war, or for the slippery-slope favorite of "sanctions." Sanctions, the step-by-step escalation of intervention, is a favorite policy of the warmongers. Calling for immediate bombing or invading of Country X as soon as a grievance starts would seem excessive and even nutty to most Americans, who don't feel the same sense of deep commitment to the U.S.A. as Global Problem-Solver as do the pundits and elites. And sanctions can temporarily slake the thirst for belligerence. And so it's sanctions: starving the villains, cutting off transportation, trade, confiscating their property in terms of financial assets, and finally, when that doesn't work, bombing, sending troops, etc. Troops are usually sent first as purely "humanitarian" missionaries, to safeguard the "humane" aid of the UN "peacekeepers." But in short order, the benighted natives, irrationally turning against all this help and altruism, begin shooting at their beloved helpers, and the fat is in the fire, and the U.S. must face the prospects of sending troops who are ordered to shoot to kill.

In recent weeks, in addition to humanitarian troops, there had been escalating talk of American "sanctions": against North Korea of course, but also against Japan (for not buying more U.S. exports), against Haiti, against the Bosnian Serbs (always referred to as the "self-styled" Republic of Srpska, – this in contrast to all other governments "styled" by others?). Jesse Jackson wants the U.S. to invade Nigeria pronto, and now we have Senators Kerry (D., Mass.) calling for sanctions against our ancient foe, Canada, for not welcoming New England fishermen in its waters.

OK, the time has come to get tough and to get consistent. Sanctions are simply the coward's and the babbler's halfway house to war. We must face the fact that there is not a single country in the world that measures up to the lofty moral and social standards that are the hallmark of the U.S.A.: even Canada is delinquent and deserves a whiff of grape. There is not a single country in the world which, like the U.S., reeks of democracy and "human rights," and is free of crime and murder and hate thoughts and undemocratic deeds. Very few other countries are as Politically Correct as the U.S., or have the wit to impose a massively statist program in the name of "freedom," "free trade," "multiculturalism," and "expanding democracy."

And so, since no other countries shape up to U.S. standards in a world of Sole Superpower they must be severely chastised by the U.S., I make a Modest Proposal for the only possible consistent and coherent foreign policy: the U.S. must, very soon, Invade the Entire World! Sanctions are peanuts; we must invade every country in the world, perhaps softening them up beforehand with a wonderful high-tech missile bombing show courtesy of CNN.

But how will we Look in the Eyes of World Opinion if we invade the world? Not to worry; we can always get the cover of our kept stooges in the UN, NATO, or whatever. Boutros Boutros-Ghali, who is already reneging on his agreement to run for only one term as UN secretary-general, is perfect for the job; no more power-hungry UN official has ever existed. But what about the Security Council? That's OK, because we can always buy off the abstention of China or whoever for a few billion. No problem.

And then the whole world will subsist under the U.S. and UN flags, happy, protected, free of crime and poverty and hate. What could be more inspiring?

A few isolationist, narrow-minded, selfish, callous, and probably anti-Semitic gripers, however, are bound to complain. They like to talk about various "lessons," for example, Somalia. They like to say: well sure we can get in and "win" easily, but how do we get out? In order to fix up democracy, genocide, poverty, hate, etc., we the United States, must create the country's infrastructure, set up and train its entire army and police (preferably in the U.S.). We must teach the benighted country about freedom and free elections, create its two Respectable political parties, and begin with a massive multi-billion dollar aid program to make everyone healthy, wealthy, and wise, provide an educational program (replete with dropping huge bags of food by plane so CNN can do handsprings – even if some of the "helped" are killed by the bags), outlaw smoking and junk food, and feed them all with tofu and organically grown mangoes.

But what about the Getting Out Party? What about our universal experience that when U.S. troops get out, the whole aid, infrastructure, etc. go down the drain? The solution is simple, though it has been far overlooked because some narrow-minded selfish fascist stick-in-the-muds will raise a fuss. The solution: We Don't Get Out! Ever. So we don't have to worry about preparing the natives for transition. We should stay in there and cheerfully Run the World. Permanently for the good of all. A Paradise on Earth. We can call it, the "politics of meaning."

But how will we have the manpower to do the job of occupying? Don't worry about it. In the first place, we can have a 20-million man and woman army, suitably gayized and feminized and Politically Corrected, marching in there with food packages, medicines and hypodermics in one hand, and guns and condoms clutched in the other. We've got plenty of manpower options; we could bring back the draft, we could restore the Peace Corps, and/or we can set up a huge Buckley-Clinton type National Service program, where kids "pay back society" by spending two healthful, fun-filled maturing years setting up infrastructure in Zaire or Haiti or North Korea. With this program, the kids could "pay back" the Earth. What? You say that some of our kids might pick up diseases or get shot along the way? Well, that's OK, because, as they say these days, every failure is a "learning experience."

And then, of course, the U.S.A. will only provide the backbone of the permanent forces of World Occupiers. The rest of the slots will be filled by troops from every other world country, headed by the UN, NATO, etc., providing equally healthful and joyful experiences for other occupiers: Zairians, Ukrainians, Vietnamese, etc. To see Vietnamese troops, for example, occupying Holland, would provide instructive and globally democratic lessons in multiculturalism and mutual love of all peoples. The hardcore narrow-minded will of course have to be dealt with severely, but I am confident that massive educational programs, orientation courses, teachers, books and pamphlets, etc. will change the common climate of ethnic hate to love and understanding. In addition to teachers, hateful and undemocratic attitudes will be stamped out by a legion of shrinks, therapists counselors, etc.

How will all this be financed? Every nation will, of course, contribute its "fair share" of expenses, but since the U.S.A. is the world's Only Superpower, we must face the fact that the U.S. will have to be paying the lion's share – maybe 80 or 90 percent – of the program.

And of course there are always narrow-minded, backward, selfish dogmatists, who will balk at this program, and claim that it is too "costly." There are always a few rotters who know the price of everything and the value of nothing. But again: not to worry. There will be a massive transpartisan educational effort, from all parts of the spectrum, from the Clintonian or Jacksonian left to the dozens of self-proclaimed "free-market" think-tanks, who, suitably financed by government and by corporate elites, will pour forth tomes instructing us that the program will "pay for itself," that it is in the best tradition of the Free Market and Democracy; that these expenses are not really costly because they constitute "investment in human capital" and will therefore save the taxpayers money in the long run, etc. Thus, clearing up all the hookworm in the world will so reduce medical costs that we will all be paying less money. Eventually.

Any residue of complaint, any who survive this educational effort – and let's face it, there are a few rotten apples in every barrel – will be sent to "educational retraining centers," where their objections will be put to rest, and, after a few healthful years in these camps, chopping logs and reading the collected works of left, liberal, neocon and Pragmatic Libertarian pundits, I am sure that they will emerge, happily adjusted to the Brave New Global Democracy of tomorrow.

The above presents the consistent implications of our persistent policy of intervention, and it outlines the system toward which this country has been tending.

The question is: How do we derail this trend? How do we Take it Out? How do we prevent "1984"? Unfortunately, the Republican Party, while significantly better than the Democrats on domestic policy, has been, if anything, worse and more interventionist on foreign affairs. Note the Republican take on Slick Willie: they accuse him of bumbling, evasion, continual changes of line (all true), but except on Haiti, they don't really oppose intervention per se. Sure, it would be nice to have a clear-cut, consistent foreign policy, but clear-cut in what direction? A clear-cut Enemy is not exactly an unmixed blessing.

Meanwhile, things are far from hopeless. There is both an anti-war and paleo-grassroots ferment in this country that is heartwarming. There are all sorts of manifestations: Conservative Citizens Councils, county militia movements, sheriffs who refuse to enforce the Brady Bill, rightist radio talk show hosts, lack of enthusiasm for American troops getting killed in Somalia or Haiti, a Buchananite movement, and increasingly good sense on this question from syndicated columnist Robert Novak. Meantime, the least we at Triple R can do is accelerate the Climate of Hate in America, and hope for the best.

September 1994

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/ir/Ch34.html