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View Full Version : Zero tolerance = zero distinctions???



Anonymous
Wed, 26 Nov 03, 9:43 PM
As you might know, I am strongly against all "zero tolerance" policies, since they always bring about lots of unintended consequences (thus, the cure is usually worse than the disease).

Now, hereīs another "proof" of this fact:

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Zero Patience for Zero Tolerance
November 25, 2003
by Wendy McElroy, mac@ifeminists.net


News shows recently showed video of 14 police officers charging a crowded high-school corridor with guns drawn in a drug sweep. Students at Stratford Creek High School in Goose Creek, S.C., were forced onto their knees or against walls, while dogs sniffed their backpacks for drugs.

None were found. Although the incident was extreme, it was not an aberration but the logical consequences of "zero tolerance" policies, defended by both the school and the police. Zero tolerance must be abandoned, especially in connection with children.

Zero-tolerance policies have resulted in some children being placed in the criminal justice system. Two examples currently in the news: A Missouri judge ruled that a 6-year-old boy suspected of killing his grandfather could be charged as an adult; a New Jersey prosecutor's office has charged a 7-year-old boy with molesting a 5-year-old girl in an incident that the defense attorney describes as "playing doctor."

For most children, zero tolerance is experienced in schools with administrative rules that purportedly enforce safety and discipline. Arguably, the administrative rules are actually a reaction to federal threats to cut funds. For example, in 1994 Congress passed the Gun-Free School Act by which states had to implement zero tolerance on weapons or lose federal money. Many schools rigorously interpreted zero tolerance to include the prohibition of anything even looking like a weapon. They adopted broad definitions of dangerous behavior, which allowed for no exceptions.

Soon the media spilled over with stories of young children being suspended or treated like felons for playing with water pistols, paper guns or even for pointing their fingers at each other and saying "bang."

The punishment for possessing an obvious toy became the same as for possessing a real weapon because zero tolerance means zero distinctions. Zero tolerance takes discretion and evaluation away from educators and mandates responses that can be wildly inappropriate. Behavior that used to be corrected by detention or a trip to the principal's office now receives suspension, expulsion or even police involvement. What used to be the last resort has become the first and only option.

In Madison, Wis., Chris Schmidt, a sixth-grader with a spotless record, faced a year's suspension because he brought a kitchen knife to school for a science project. Asked about the case, Valencia Douglas, an assistant superintendent of schools in Madison, said, "We can't say, 'You're a good kid, so your mistake doesn't have as much force, or importance behind it.'"

And so, an 11-year-old is taken away in handcuffs for drawing a picture of a gun; an 8-year-old faces expulsion for a keychain that contained a cheap nail clipper; a fifth-grader is suspended for drawing the World Trade Center being hit by an airplane ... The stories go on and on.

The quantity of these incidents illustrates that the vicious consequences of zero tolerance are not isolated events. They are embedded into one of the most important institutions of society: the educational system. When the school principal in Goose Creek justified police pointing guns at innocent students, he did so by saying he would use "any means" to keep his school "clean."

A backlash is developing among students who are reportedly saying the same thing nationwide. Many schools now resemble prisons with hidden security cameras, metal detectors, guards, random searches, drug-sniffing dogs, and searches without warrants.

Zero tolerance is commonly justified on the grounds of children's safety. But, in studying "unsafe" schools that had enforced zero-tolerance policies for four years, the National Center for Education Statistics found little change (Skiba & Peterson, 1999).

In commenting on the study in the journal "National Association of Elementary School Principals," Roger W. Ashford wrote, "The study concludes, however, that even though there is little data to prove the effectiveness of zero-tolerance policies, such initiatives serve to reassure the public that something is being done to ensure safety. Therefore, the popularity of zero-tolerance policies may have less to do with their actual effect than the image they portray of schools taking harsh measures to prevent violence. Whether the message actually changes student behavior may be less important than the reassurance it provides to administrators, teachers and parents."

Everyone recognizes that zero-tolerance policies were developed in response to legitimate concerns, such as those raised by the high-school shootings at Columbine. But, increasingly, people are also recognizing that zero tolerance creates as many -- and perhaps more -- problems than the original difficulties they were meant to solve.

Alternatives are being suggested. For example, Richard L. Curwin and Allen N. Mendler have co-authored a book entitled "As Tough as Necessary: Countering Aggression, Violence, and Hostility in Schools" (Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development, 1999). They advocate a wide range of responses to school violence, which depend upon an evaluation of the circumstances surrounding each incident. The responses include "counseling, restitution, behavioral planning, behavior rehearsal, suspension with training or educational experience, and police referral."

Another alternative is homeschooling.

There is little evidence that zero tolerance produces safety. Instead, it strips away the safeguards of a peaceful society: compassion, due process, good will, presumption of innocence, tolerance, discretion, humor ... It victimizes the most vulnerable citizens: children.

http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/1125.html

Warm Lemonade
Thu, 27 Nov 03, 1:24 AM
I agree with Bill Maher on this one: "I have a Zero Tolerance Policy for Zero Tolerance Policies".

I was surprised to see a feminist making so much sense.

Crazyhorse
Sat, 29 Nov 03, 6:56 PM
I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with any society that has armed police that draw guns as a matter of routine. Especially in a school.

Please come back when you have grown up from the gutter. :cry: :(

Anonymous
Sat, 29 Nov 03, 10:21 PM
I cannot agree with any society that has armed police that draw guns as a matter of routine. Especially in a school.


Iīm sorry, Crazyhorse, but I donīt have a clue what is it supposed to mean... :?: Does is mean that you would expel from school every child who draws a gun? Even if that child has never shown any signs of aggressive behavior before?

Now, I am pretty sure that when you were a little child you must have drawn guns as well.

Crazyhorse
Fri, 5 Dec 03, 2:42 PM
Sorry Matt.

This is another example of how confusing English can be when the same word has two different meanings. To draw a gun could mean create a picture of one, but in this context it means to pull a gun out of its holster and point it at someone, as in the western films where being "quick on the draw" was one of the main signs of the hero cowboy.

None of which can be justified in a school.

Estelle
Sat, 6 Dec 03, 10:30 AM
Hi Matt

I notice that your reference article was written by Wendy McElroy' a libertarian feminist who has a proud record of opposing extremism and fundamentalism of any kind.

Yes, it seems that, in the name of "security" or "protection", all kinds of oppressive legislation and initiatives are being persued, both in UK and USA. "Zero Tolerence" policies are one example. I don't believe that this trend is an accident.

These initiatives are not intended to "protect" anybody at all. They are using public fears to soften us up for incresingly invasive and restrictive interference in our civil liberties. It is not an exaggeration to say that the liberties that have been fought for for over a century are under threat.

But, for heavens sake, where are the parents in this? If I had a small child and some gun toting cop came and jammed a pistol in her back I would be down to a solicitor (attorney, I think, in US) for an injunction inside an hour. Do American parents approve of their children being abused and terrorised like this?

I cannot approve of children having real weapons at school, but then allowing the general public to carry guns seems incomprehensible to most Europeans. But most children, female and male, play with imaginary weapons at some time in their childhood. I certainly did. It is part of growing up. I don't think I have turned into a psychopathic murderer or a terrorist. Limiting our children's imagination is abusive and stupid.

By the way, UK members, watch out for some nasty little clauses in the Sexual Offences Bill, currently going through parliament. That too would potentially criminalise small children playing "doctor". They say that such powers would not be used but, if so, why have them there? Because the threat of their presence is one step towards achieving what these people want to achieve, which is to paralyse our ability to think, to imagine and to be oppositional to their narrow worldview.

Estelle

Anonymous
Wed, 17 Dec 03, 12:41 AM
But, for heavens sake, where are the parents in this? If I had a small child and some gun toting cop came and jammed a pistol in her back I would be down to a solicitor (attorney, I think, in US) for an injunction inside an hour. Do American parents approve of their children being abused and terrorised like this?

Hiya Estelle,
good news for you: seems like American parents do NOT approve of that kind of "police terrorism":
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Parents Sue Over Drug Raid at South Carolina School


Dec 15, 4:29 PM (ET)

MIAMI (Reuters) - Parents of students at a South Carolina high school charged in a federal lawsuit on Monday that their children were terrorized by armed police and drug-sniffing dogs during an illegal search at the school.
The lawsuit stems from the surprise commando-style drug search of 107 students at Stratford High School in Goose Creek, South Carolina, on Nov. 5.

A widely televised surveillance tape of the raid showed police with guns drawn, handcuffing students with plastic cuffs and ordering them not to move while officers and dogs searched them. No drugs or weapons were found and no arrests were made.

The lawsuit was filed in U.S. District Court in Charleston, South Carolina, on behalf of 20 Stratford High students aged 14 to 18. It accuses police and school officials of violating the students' constitutional rights by conducting an illegal search and seizure, using excessive force, committing assault and battery and subjecting students to false imprisonment.

Officials at the Goose Creek Police Department and Berkeley County School system in South Carolina could not immediately be reached for comment. Police said earlier the raid was prompted by allegations of drug sales on school property.

The lawsuit asks the court to declare the raid unconstitutional, block future raids and award unspecified damages to the students involved.

The American Civil Liberties Union, which represents the plaintiffs, said police pointed guns at some of the students and "treated innocent children like hardened criminals."

Sharon Smalls said her 14-year-old son Nathaniel was forced to his knees with his hands behind his head while his socks, wallet and pockets were searched. "When I saw the video on television I almost lost it. It looked like something from the war, not from my son's school," she said.

The suit said police hid in closets, offices and stairwells and when the hallway filled with students, rushed out with guns drawn, yelling "Get down." Some students dove to the ground, while police grabbed and pushed others who hesitated, forcing them to the floor and handcuffing those who failed to immediately put their hands behind their heads, it said.

Police and school officials searched students' pockets and wallets, dumped out the contents of book bags and "terrorized the students," leaving them "feeling betrayed, frightened, humiliated and wrongfully accused," the lawsuit said.

It said none of the students caught up in the raid had any history of drug or weapons possession and that police had no probable cause to target them.

http://news.myway.com/top/article/id/129570|top|12-15-2003%3A%3A16%3A43|reuters.html
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The case for individual freedom has not been lost yet... :)

Cheers,

Matt :)

Estelle
Wed, 17 Dec 03, 8:38 PM
Thanks, Matt

I find that quite heartening. It seems that, even in the Southern States, not all Americans have succumbed to the collective insanity that Michael Moore depicts so tellingly in "Bowling For Columbine". Perhaps there is hope for America yet, in the face of a government whose cynical manipulation of the public's fear and whose contempt for the constitution looks increasingly reminiscent of Germany 1933.

It's pause for thought, though. The US government is the most fearsomely beweaponed regime in history, yet it successfully persuades its populace to be absolutely terrified of everything and everyone, including schoolkids supposedly on drugs. It seems that having the capacity to blow up the world doesn't produce a feeling of safety!

Estelle

DavidEngland99
Fri, 19 Dec 03, 4:04 PM
Matt,

I have a lot or sympathy with what you are saying here, but I am not sure "Zero tolerance" is what this is about. Zero tolerance need not mean that an absurd punishment is used for small offences, and many of your examples are basically the result of the crazy US love of guns. In the UK even the police are not routinely armed - and it works!

If zero tolerance means enforcing sensible laws in sensible ways then it may make a positive contribution. For example, enforcing litter laws may make a town look smarter - which seems to deter people from crime.

David

Anonymous
Sun, 21 Dec 03, 7:38 AM
I cannot approve of children having real weapons at school, but then allowing the general public to carry guns seems incomprehensible to most Europeans. But most children, female and male, play with imaginary weapons at some time in their childhood. I certainly did. It is part of growing up. I don't think I have turned into a psychopathic murderer or a terrorist. Limiting our children's imagination is abusive and stupid.

Sure, but then letting kids get away with whatever they want also leads to problems. Maybe your own childhood/parents meant you played with imaginary guns and turned out the well rounded person you are, but not everyone will. Maybe we should ask WHY it is natural for kids to play with guns, as I am sure it would be nothing to do with the violent world they live in where wars are fought on the basis of scant evidence, and aggressive posturing is not just the norm but expected. Maybe all those kids who grow up to kick seven shades of shit out of each other and other people on Saturday night aren't psychopathic murderers, but I would expect they played with guns. Maybe even real ones, so their imaginations not only ran wild, but stopped being imagined...

Anonymous
Sun, 21 Dec 03, 7:42 AM
If zero tolerance means enforcing sensible laws in sensible ways then it may make a positive contribution. For example, enforcing litter laws may make a town look smarter - which seems to deter people from crime.

No, it just makes them commit it elsewhere and as long as the scum are committing crime outside our nice clean neighbourhoods, why should we care? In New York, crime was displaced to outlying areas when Zero Tolerance was adopted, because ZT does not hit at the root causes of crime.

Anonymous
Sun, 21 Dec 03, 10:50 AM
Well, I don't want to be dogmatic about this, but it does seem to me that a big part of that run-down look that parts of cities have comes from low-level crime. Making those places look nicer would benefit the people who live there and would probably make more people get angry with anyone that tried to spoil it. I am NOT saying that ZT can replace other things like better welfare etc.

David

Anonymous
Sun, 21 Dec 03, 7:07 PM
Well, I don't want to be dogmatic about this, but it does seem to me that a big part of that run-down look that parts of cities have comes from low-level crime.

Or the low level crime is a result of the same reasons the place looks rundown - it doesn't have the money spent on it that posher areas do. Why are council estates often less appealing than posh gated communities? Anything to do with the people that live in them? Or, as we presumably don't believe in rich, educated people being de facto superior beings, maybe it has something to do with how much money they have combined with the influence they have over the government and local policies.


Making those places look nicer would benefit the people who live there and would probably make more people get angry with anyone that tried to spoil it. I am NOT saying that ZT can replace other things like better welfare etc.

Making somewhere look nice means spending money on it, and is de facto, welfare. The difficulty comes when you realise that the people in rundown areas have no money to spend, and the richer people who live elsewhere are too ignorant and selfish to see why they should have their inherited or exploited wealth spent on scum living elsewhere.

Zero tolerance is just a different way of the rich fucking the poor.

Anonymous
Mon, 22 Dec 03, 6:17 AM
>In New York, crime was displaced to outlying areas when Zero Tolerance was adopted, because ZT does not hit at the root causes of crime.<
What are you talking about. I do not know of any general increase in crime in the outllying areas. As budget cuts have made there have been sharp increases in murders in a few outlying areas but other types of crime are still
going down in these areas. The sharpest decreases in crime in the last 10 years have been in the outlying and poor areas.
Making areas look nice helped but was not the main reason for the crime drop. By arresting people for low level crimes like fare beating while laughed at by most including myself you ended up putting in jail "fare beaters" with long criminal records thus dealing with ONE of the root causes of crime. Other tactics not related to this thread included using computers to determine problem areas and flooding that area with police,the controversial tactic of profiling,amnesty periods for turning in guns and strict enforcement of gun laws..
If economics are the big reason for crime rates why was the crime rate during the 1930's low?
Back to the topic at hand most of the incidents Matt is reporting are in white middle to upper class areas.