The Jesus Movies

[bloom061604]

Not being religious, I never went to any of the Jesus movies, and there have been many over the years. The subject matter just holds no interest for me. But none in my memory has gotten quite the hype as Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ". How much TV coverage have you seen of patrons leaving theatres after viewing the movie, claiming to have renewed faith after seeing Jesus' suffering? I understand it's pretty horrendous in this movie.

Come on, folks, get real. This is one man's (Gibson's) take on the death of Jesus. It's a story. We have no way of knowing what really occurred on that day, or anything else about the life of Jesus for that matter, if he even existed. It was 2000 years ago. All we know is what the gospels tell us, and they're just stories that cannot be and never will be verified. We know little about the life of Shakespeare, and that was only 400 years ago.

—Bloom

[paco]

I get all my news (and much of my entertainment) from the web, so I can't speak to the amount of hype, but didn't Scorsese's "The Last Temptation of Christ" cause quite a stir in its day (1988)? I remember picketers, and being handed a Gideon Bible as I left the theatre. Quite an enjoyable movie, by the way. My other favorite Jesus movie is Denys Arcand's "Jesus of Montreal."

Just a hunch, but I'd guess there's a bread-and-circuses aspect to the media hype. Better for the powers that be to distract the populace with non-issues like a movie (or an errant nipple at a football game) than with reporting about the goings-on in, say, Cheney's undisclosed location.

[DavidEngland99]

I think "The life of Brian" probably comes closer to the truth than anything else!

David

[bloom061604]

You've got it, David. "The Life of Brian" was the greatest movie about religious skepticism ever made. Like other works by Monty Python, much of it is relentlessly silly, but the satire is lethal.

—Bloom

[Justme]

We have no way of knowing what really occurred on that day, or anything else about the life of Jesus for that matter, if he even existed. It was 2000 years ago. All we know is what the gospels tell us, and they're just stories that cannot be and never will be verified. We know little about the life of Shakespeare, and that was only 400 years ago.

—Bloom

It all depends on how strong your faith is. Atleast as to how accurate the Scripture is. As for Jesus' existence, that's historical, as well as Biblical. So is the crucifiction. Now, as to how many steps Jesus took, or what specifically he suffered, or how much he suffered, that, again, is a matter of faith, and how much you believe what the Bible tells us. People will believe what they waht to believe, and I begrudge no one that right. However, I also don't care for people who belittle others because they choose to believe in the story of the Passion, or the rest of the Bible, for that matter. I'm not one to evangelise, and I apologise for speaking up here.But I felt a need for the other side to be heard, as well.

[bloom061604]

Thank you for contributing your thoughts on this subject, Justme. I made my original post deliberately provocative in hopes of launching a spirited dialog. I've frankly been disappointed it's received so little response, except for a couple who appeared to agree with me. Agreement wasn't what I was looking for, but differing opinions like yours to spur a lively debate.

It appears this off-topic board is not well-attended. That's unfortunate, because it's an excellent forum for airing our views on unlimited subjects.

—Bloom

[DavidEngland99]

Justme,

Those of us who are not religious are not trying to belittle believers, but to point out that there is no reason to believe they are right - and the fighting between different types of belevers puts us all at risk.

Perhaps my biggest objection to the whole idea of beleif is that I just can't imagine a GOD wanting people to believe in him without adequate evidence - particularly in a world that is full of religious nuts of all types. Why would he want people to do that!!!!!!

David

[Justme]

You miss the whole idea of faith. Faith is not belief based on evidence. Faith is belief in a promise, WITHOUT evidence. But just for the record, I've seen too much in my life, both in the natural world, as well as in day to day occurences NOT to have a strong belief in God, and what He's done and CAN do for us. Again, I begrudge no one the right not to believe. I think they're wrong :), but that's their perogative. I've got about as strong a belief in Christ as anyone I've ever known, but I'm by no means a religious person. I don't go to church on sunday (I don't believe in being a Christian one day a week and a jerk the rest), and when I feel the need to pray, I just talk to God as I would anyone else. I don't feel the need to get on my knees and make all kinds of other outward signs so others can look and say "he really IS a Christain!" It's no one else's business. But at the same time, I also don't believe in evangelising to people who don't want to hear it. I'll talk all day with someone who's interested, but if you don't want to hear it, you won't. The only reason I chimed in was to voice the other side in what I saw as a debate. I'll climb back off my soap box now. :)

[DavidEngland99]

Faith is not like believing in a promise. If someone promises me something, I know that person - whereas you have to have faith that God exists before you can even begin to believe in his promises.

Anyway, a God that lets his followers pick fights with other people who believe in a slightly different version of God does not seem much of a God to me!

David

[Justme]

First off, it IS a promise I believe in. The Bible tells me that God is real, and so is His love for me. It tells me that His Son died on the cross at Calvary to give me the promise of everlasting life with Him when my physical body dies. These are the promises that have been made to me that I have complete faith in. As for the rest of your post, do the words "free will" mean anything to you? God gave us what we need to make things right, or make things wrong. The choice is ours. Unfortunately, there are too many people in this world that make the wrong choices.

One last thing-- I hope you're not talking about me when you talk about His followers picking fights. It is so unlike me to pick fights with anyone. It's also so unlike me to back down from one that's brought to me, either.

[bspider]

Gentlemen, I think it's time to draw a line under this one.

Boris.

[DavidEngland99]

Boris,

I will draw a line soon, but fights include Norther Ireland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Kashmir, Croatia....... just about everywhere where there has been trouble in recent years it has been about religion. Individual believers may be peacful, but an awful lot of religiously inspired individuals (including UBL) are not!

Also religion seems to inspire a fantastic intollerance to any sexual deviancy. Homosexuals in particular seem to get a rough deal. The Catholics preach a fantastic sexual purity and then the priests molest the kids in their care (and the church protects the priests). I don't like organised religion of any sort - it is better that people decide these things for themselves!

David

[Crazyhorse]

I have triec to resist the temptation to get involved in this well debated problem, but when the gist of the argument gets around to blaming wars on religion and therefore by implication coming to the conclusion that if religion did not exist, we would all be living in peace, then I cant keep my control.

It is not religion that causes conflict, but just the warped interpretation of what it is all about that does that.
I am not a religious person, in the sense that I do not go to church, read the bible or believe that a all powerful being is controlling every minute thing that happens on this planet from some deep space hide-away. But I do believe that there is more to life than just a bunch of two-legged carbon based people on this planet.

The sheer size of the universe must indicate that there are other galaxies out there supporting life, of some forms or other. You only have to look at the figures. i.e. there are nearly ten times as many galaxies in the known universe than there are people living on the earth at present. Just try an imagine that - ten times more galaxies.

I cannot believe that in all that space and time there are not a few planets that have survived being hit by asteroids, volcanic disasters etc. etc and the evolution of races have continued to the point where they managed to achieve space, and even time, travel. Some may have even discovered the secrets of how to create life on planets that have the right atmospheric conditions, and could therefore fit quite easily into the bibles description of the seven days of creation.

So belief of superior beings is not a problem for me, and I can understand how that must have been difficult to describe in sensible terms by those who wrote the scriptures over 2000 years ago, with no experience of our technological advances. But, what really makes me angry is the way that narrow minded individuals seem to take what is written and demand that, however old the language, it must be followed to the letter, irrsepective of how much harm is caused to others who do not share that fundamentalist approach.

Faith, to me, is the realisation that there are many things about life, the universe, etc. that I have no knowledge about and that if I did I would probably feel so pathetically small and humiliated I would just beg for forgiveness for all the stupid things I have done in comparison. So I just believe that the whole point of a life is to get to grips with how powerful evil can be if it is given a chace to thrive, and how subtle it can be as it can become extremely entrenched in people/communities before the majority realise it is evil maquerading as good, rather than pure good itself.

Once you realise the power evil has, then the rest falls into place.

[DavidEngland99]

Crazyhorse,

I don't really argue with what you have said - it is ORGANISED religion that is so dogmatic and makes people's lives a misery and starts wars. Would you argue that the Catholics, or Protestants in NI, or the Muslims/Hindus in India are not guilty of these things. If everyone thought for themselves - as you obviously do - there would be no problem, but they don't - they get led by power seeking trouble makers!

David[/img]

[Justme]

DAvid, I agree with you about organised religion. I've often said I'm not religious-- I'm too much of a CHristian for that. The way I see it, God brought about Christianity to bring people together, and man brought about religion to divide people in God's name. One other comment-- I fully believe that religion has nothing to do with the problems of the world, other than being a good crutch to rest shingles on for the trouble makers of the world. If religion didn't exist, they'd find something else to kill about. There are just some folks in this world who aren't happy unless they're making others absolutely miserable.

[Crazyhorse]

I think all religions are guilty of harbouring hate. They may not think they do, but it is there, masked by their own self-righteousness. The problem stems from each religion considering that it has a more divine right to enter heaven or their own equivalent (whatever that may be) than others because they are following the rules to the letter. But why should they? Everyone is equalin Gods eyes, even suicide bombers, but unfortunately the bombers have a much longer way to go to see the errors of their ways, realise the horrific damage they have done to Gods creations, and then repent.

Anyone who calls themselves a Christian is suffering from a self induced delusion. As I see it, God made rules for Christianity and only he knew exactly what he meant. Lots of things must have been partly lost in transalation. Therefore only God can decide if someone is a Christian or not, and that will be their judgement day. Anyone can clall themselves a Christian, but it doesn't mean anything to me, it is just a group description of a branch of religion and is equal to Hindu, Muslim etc.

(By the way, my use of the word God is purely for my convenience, and does not imply any bias on my part. You can susbstitute Allah, Jehovah, that bloke in the sky, or whatever name you like if it makes you feel more comfortable)

Nobody can be free of temptation, even Jesus was tempted to give up his real mission and use his power to rule the planet, or so my Sunday School bible reading classes led me to believe. And the more you try and be free of temptation, the more you need to isolate yourself from the real world and become a recluse.
And to go back to the suicide bomber again, there is no way you can stop them doing what they do, unless you fully understand the reasons why they are doing it. Preaching at them might work, if the message is one of worldly
love but it might take decades. Turning around and demanding that their friends and relatives be killed in retaliation for what they have done is not a Christian act. Everyone on the planet needs to just sit down and think seriously about their attitudes, behaviour etc. in great detail, and then we might get somewhere, but at the moment we are all accelerating down the road to hell.