Life fucking sucks.....

[Finesse]

This is a private message I sent to a very few people late in december last year. If you havnt figrued it out already, I am gay and live with my partner (which I will call Hannah) in the post. I have always used the word partner instedad of girlfriend and nobody has every reacted......I am really suprised nobody ever did. I have told some few people in the years I have been writing here thought.....

Anyway, this is the PM i a wrote to a very few people:



This is true and happened a day in december….on my birthday…

I was out with my girlfriend (who I call Hannah) and other friends, since it was my 20:th birthday (I hope that means I turned 20 that day, then it is right). I am not going to talk about all things that happened during the evening and early night, but some great and crazy stuff happened….dancing on table and stuff!!!). But since it has nothing to do with wetting and is not relevant. Lets just say I had a lot to drink…..hehe…I sound like a alcoholic….always saying I had a lot to drink hehe…

On our way home (and home is now an OWN apartment which it will be untill at least 1:st january 2006 and hopefully longer)! Of course Hannah also lives there with me (not paying so much though).

Anyway, it was me, Hannah, Hannah’s brother, my best friend and her sister and their boyfriends and 3 more friends. On the way home like about 2 in the morning (we started early in the afternoon), and all people except me and Hannah either had gone to another pub, went home or changed subway, and Hannah and me was alone on the subway home. Then I said to Hannah I needed to pee really bad. And the thing was I didn’t think before I said it, and I don’t know why but I just blurted it out. I don’t remember what I meant by it and I didn’t have a plan……..honestly, I didn’t.

Anyway, 2 stations after I had formed a plan….a drunken plan, but a plan…..it wasn’t great, but to me it was. Anyway I told Hannah again that I really needed to pee really bad……she just said, its okay where almost home. Which we was, maybe 7-8 more minutes with the subway.

I had to pee bad, but it was no big problem waiting untill we got home. You know….needing to pee bad, but not like so bad it is a close call…….
But with 2 stations left I said to Hannah…..honey, I mean it, I really got to pee….I’m almost wetting myself!! She just laughed a bit, but then I said with a serious tone in my voice: no honestly, I’m about to wet myself any second…..
She kind of understood it was for real, but after a second or two she just hugged me and said that’s okay honey, we are almost home, but in a way she didn’t think I was so close wetting myself as I tried to make her think, even if she understood I needed to pee really bad.

Anyway, I just decided to say one final thing and that was in a voice mixed with being serious and joking at the same time: Hannah, I cant hold it much more…..please don’t be mad if I wet myself before we get home…..
Her reply was a “not believing me”: its okay girl, you go for it!

I didn’t know what to do and when to wet….but I decided to do it pretty much as soon as we got of the subway and away from most people. We got to our station and I did the peedance while waiting for the doors to open, and then we got of. Hannah asked if I was going to pee in the elevator but I didn’t answer and we walked to it, but when we got there we saw it was broken and locked (as Hannah felt the door). Everything was going my way.

Where I lived with my mom outside the subway station it was a bus-station and always a lot of people, but where I live now it’s a lighted tunnel just as you have taken the stairs down the escalator and then its some normal suburban streets. The place where my apartment is really quite, its like really old people living there (and will untill they die since they have lived there since they built it.) And when they die families move in with little kids. So the chance of meeting someone is maybe not minimal but at least small. And if we would it wouldn’t be “gangs” to be afraid of as it was where I lived with my mom.

The few people who got of with me and Hannah had disappeared, and this is the part you wont believe me, but as soon as I got on the escalator I tried to pee! I have never been so daring in my life! I just stood there trying so hard, and usually it takes a while and especially in “public” (I mean outside not in front of people, that I have never done) but not even halfway it started….I peed in my pants. I didn’t enjoy it as much as I thought I would….I had like a million things going on in my head……

Hannah was talking to me but I didn’t listen and when she noticed I didn’t listen she said like: hello, am I that boring? I tried to get tears in my eyes but really couldn’t but I just said, I am wetting myself! Without looking down on my pants, she said: pee in a bush when we get out of here . I waited and said: No I am wetting myself now, I’m am not joking I have already wet myself and I am still peeing. I looked her right in the eyes saying it, trying to look sad.

I was so curious about how Hannah would react, but she didn’t. She just lay her arm around me and said its okay, and started joking about me not drinking so much again and so on and said lets hurry home. . I didn’t say anything but when the escalator ended I just took 2 step onto the ground and just stood there peeing the rest for a few seconds untill I was done. Hannah didn’t look at me she just looked at the man sitting selling tickets (he couldn’t se me from where I was standing. Normally I would think please don’t let us met anyone but I really didn’t. Okay I wished it but not like I normally would. When I had finished me and Hannah started walking home. I didn’t know what to say, and neither did she. It was silence for like 30 seconds.

Finally I said are you mad? She started laughing and said mad for what? and took my hand. I said: its getting cold and she replied smilingly: I thought it was nice and warm to wet ones pants! I played along jokingly but meaning every word that yeah, It was really warm and nice to wet my pants....it usually feels like heaven but now its getting really cold. I thought of asking her not to tell anyone but I never said that. The talk home was like stiff….neither me or she really know what to say. Or she did, I was so tensed I didn’t know what to say and she must have seen I was different, but hopefully she thought it was because I wet my pants, and I let her think that.

Amazingly we didn’t met anyone on our walk home, but in my mind I would just have said lets change the side of the street we walk on and that would be that. The walk is really short maybe 2 minutes tops. When we got home I jumped in the shower at once. When I got out I throw my wet pants and panties in a plastic bag and let it lay in the bathroom. Hannah was already in bed, and she asked me if I was okay. I said yes. She said I know you don’t want to talk about it, but its okay these things happen. I just agreed.

The next day she told me to rinse my clothes of and lay them in a plastic bag in the hamper, and jokingly said I would be the one to do the laundry this week…..I just laughed and didn’t know what to say.

That was that. And you know what….I am disappointed…..I had hoped for so much more…..a stronger reaction…..I wish I could say I had the best sex of my life that night but I cant……..
I am sad because I cant do it again since she will know its on purpose then. I have lost my only chance and it wasn’t what I thought it would be……far far from it…I feel like crying…..I had imagined so much but nothing was the way I thought it would be…….

I had hoped for it to be the greatest day of my life but….it wasn’t……I don’t know what to say…..I cant say what I expected but I expected so much much more, more powerful feelings both from me and Hannah…..a greater turn on and being more excited……it was nothing special…..I have just fulfilled my biggest fantasy ever, wetting my pants in front of the girl I love……but I am not happy…..I am sad……

Life fucking sucks!!!!

Hugs
Finesse

[SWEETPEE]

You should have worked with her to get her to pee her pants, now that would be a present.
Then you could join in and both have a pee session when you got home, no telling what could happen. Probably underess one other and rub those wet peed bodies together and peed more.
Chances are good then you get a little bit of pussy or she goes down and you might get down on her too.

Then you can say it was a great night. A little planning works a lot.


donnie

[Estelle]

Check your pms, Finesse.

Of course, some of us didn't react (to your use of the word "partner") in public cos it was obvious and it was just a matter of recognising a kindred spirit! It's always good to know of other gay women - a gay woman into wetting is a very special bonus!

I just hope that one day you can realise your dreams

Hugs to you too

Estelle

[DavidEngland99]

Finesse,

Somehow, I too had cottoned on to the idea that you are lesbian - I don't know why. It certainly was not the use of the word 'partner' - LOL, Estelle, I sometimes refer to my 'partner' because we aren't married, but I'm certainly not gay.

Seriously, I take it that you and Hannah have never tried wet fun together, and that she does not know you are into it. These situations can be incredibly difficult. A wets 'by accident' to try to test B, and maybe B gets really turned on but feels he/she must pretend to be mildly upset or sympathetic because they think it was a genuine accident. Because A isn't getting any good reactions from B, A has to go on pretending the whole thing was a ghastly accident ...... and so it goes on! And that is when B is turned on by wetting - and obviously, not everyone is :(.

My hunch (for what it is worth) is that Hannah was a bit turned on. After all, she did talk about it being nice and warm to wet your pants, and she did take your hand and say "Mad for what?" - you may have driven her half crazy, but she daren't say! I suspect a really non-WS person would have reacted more like we would if someone we loved vomited - concern mixed with yuck!

These things are always tricky, but perhaps if you try bringing the subject round to that incident, have a bit of a laugh about it, and then try something like "You know, the strange thing is that when I wet myself it seemed to make me so horny - I suddenly felt I wanted you so badly, but I was embarrassed because I felt so messy!" Rendered into your best Swedish - that might work wonders!

I hope it works for you, because I think a wet relationship must be SO great. However, if all else fails, carry on loving Hannah, and enjoy wet fun as a little private extra - like so many of us do!

David

[bspider]

Finesse:

From posts you've made here in the past your orientation is obvious to anyone who thinks a little - in fact, iirc you've even stated it openly.

I'm very sad to understand that you feel you've lost your only chance of completely fulfilling your fantasy, but surely all is not lost? Again, I expect you have little problem discussing all manner of other things with your partner, so you could do worse than try as David suggested.

BUT, don't run undue risk. If you feel the risk of losing Hannah to a 'yeuk' reaction is too great, I suggest that it's probably better to keep on as you have done, with your own 'wet fun' as a pleasant aside to your obviously good relationship.

Boris, his two eurocents...:)

[WT]

Hi Finesse,

As one of the recipients of your original mail, I don't need to repeat everything I said then. Knowing the situation was one reason why I would not say anything in a reply and, as others have said, I think I had got that impression before you told me anyway. However, congratulations on having the courage to post this openly now! I'm a little bit curious why you did though?!

Anyway, as I said then, I hope that things work out for you and 'Hannah' in other ways to provide you with your satisfaction.

Best wishes.

[Ape]

It is always heartening to see someone express their true self, so please be assured that even in the midst of your sadness, at least now you can be yourself here on this board. As for the use of the word 'partner', I don't think I would twig because to me that word is the acceptable terminology to refer to one's significant other, whether male/female/straight/gay/bi/fuckbuddy/married etc.... I would certainly refer to my partner in that way, and I am straight.

I send you sympathy that the situation did not (has not yet?) resolve itself the way you hoped, and hope you may find an intimate openhearted opportunity where you can share this most crucial aspect of your character with your partner.

[Finesse]

To Sweetpee:

Well if it was that simple, don’t you think I would have;)
But asking your partner that is not something that is easy to do, even with planning.



To Estelle:

PMS checked:)

It really wasn’t the word partner I thought people would react on, I thought people would react that I never ever used the word girlfriend/boyfriend..

Yeah, I hope so to, but dreams doesn’t always come true, you know :cry:



To David:

Like I said to Estelle it wasn’t just the word partner, but I never used girlfriend/boyfriend and I never used he or she! Not using the word he/she made some sentences look very strange……maybe people didn’t react because most know I am from sweden.

I know what you means with the “wet by accident” and see how “B” will react.
But I also think all people react differently. And I don’t think most people think that someone pees her/his pants is so gross. Not compared to vomiting or even pooping ones pants. Of course most people wouldn’t find it nice and maybe also think it is a little gross, but still it is a difference from vomiting. Okay, I am partial in this, but I still think so. And I did talk about it a bit afterwards with her, but it seemed nobody was really willing to really discuss it. Not her, and not me either. Of course I wanted to but…you know….its was strange and uncomfortable.

Believe me when I say Hannah is not into wetting. I know it. To be honest I have never ever thought it. Maybe sometimes hoping it, but in my mind I can honestly say I never ever thought so. And now I know she isn’t (not just because of “incident”)

Yeah, of course I still love Hannah, and of course I will wet when she is not around. Like this weekend :wink:



To bspider:

Yeah, sometimes I also felt it was obvious for people reading my post, but still, maybe it isn’t. Who knows, you and others will be the judge of that:)

To be honest I don’t know if I really wet myself for a “complete fulfilling of my fantasies” I did it because I wanted some kind of reaction from here. A powerful and big reaction, in some way. I mean I felt like she didn’t care less if I wet my pants. Of course she is in a position not knowing what to say or how to react, and probably though I really didn’t want to talk about it. I mean how many people not into wetting, having a real accident don’t feel it embarrassing? How many people would like to talk about it rather then forgetting about it?

And of course, I mean she thought it was an accident , and most grownups probably feels its no big deal, like who cares. And that was the reaction Hannah had.

This was a few months ago, and nothing has happened after that so……



To WT:

Yeah but it took a while (and again, being drunk :roll: ) to build up the courage………
Hannah always satisfy me….more than anyone can imagine……. :shock:



To Ape:

Be myself on the board, hehe, I always has! But I know what you mean. And to clarify I am totally open about it in my life, all my friends know, everyone at my job and so on. Also even strangers because me and Hannah kiss very openly in the city to:)

Thanks for caring about me :D

Like I said to the others, is not just the word partner but that I never used boyfriend/girlfriend or he/she.

No, the situation is the same as before I wet my pants in front of her.




To all:
Doesn’t anyone else feel sad you about you partner not knowing.

I mean…of course I care about the sex, but honestly, I have never expected Hannah to wet for me, or even me doing it as part of sex. That is not what I am after. Of course that would be heaven but I hope everyone know what I mean?

But what I miss and make me feel so sad is her not knowing. I mean, I want her to know about, and care about it. Being interested in that and me!

I would like Hannah to ask why I like it (which I cant answer but I still want her to ask) and I would like Hannah to ask what I like (not her doing it or me in front of her) but still to ask what I really like, what my fantasies are. Why my fantasies are that way anf for how long it has been.

I mean I would like her to CARE about it and me!

Not doing stuff but ask, being interested and care about me and my feelings. My goal is not to share fantasies in that way or have included wetting in the sex I just want her to know the whole me……and that’s includes wetting.......

She is that in all other ways, and I want her to be that way when it becomes to wetting tou. I would like to talk to her how I feel about it...not that she will ever understand, but still.....

Hugs to all
Finesse

Hi Finesse:

I think you guys need to talk! If one half of a relationship is on a wavelength and the other isn't there is some urgent communicating to be done. Without it, you will start to build a wall around yourself: you wil start to shut your partner out. The result may not be what you want, but at least the context of what happened that night will be out in the open.

Hannah, I think, DID react. She was sympathetic, protective, loving in the way a partner should be. But you say yourself that you couldn't get serious - somehow the tears didn't come, the embarrassment and distress didn't feel genuine. So the reaction was commensurate to your need as Hannah saw it.

Tell her how you felt that night - pretend to a newness and a realisation, if you like, but tell her how peeing yourself turned you on, and ask if there are ways she could try it, too - would it turn her on? Tell her how wonderful it would be for you to see her and to hold her as she wet her pants. Don't gush - literally or figuratively - but explore: if it goes wrong you can just dismiss it with a sort of "Oh, OK, but I thought it felt good" and move on. Good luck!

[Finesse]

To Osiris61:

No, the relationship is great if you ignore the wetting. She care about me, as I do about her. She loves listening to me and ask, and is curious.

The problem is I want her to know about my wetting.

But most people have stuff they never share, and it is okay. I mean it just a part of you, the wetting, and I think it is sad I cant share it, but I guess that is how it works for most people.

I understand what you mean, that Hannah reacted. And okay, she did. And I know it was the nromal reaction. But I had hoped and wished for something bigger. I am not sure what way, but a bigger reaction. But like I said, I know it was the normal reaction, but still....When I wrote the original PM I was so sad and down about not getting what I wanted, that it sounded wrong.

But the point is that I dont want her to wet herself. And I dont want to wet in front of her. That is not the key. I mean of course I would love that, but its not the important thing :!:

I want her to know I like it, and why, how and when I like it. How I began to like it. Just to listen to my thoughts and feelings. To care about that, and trying to understand me.

I just want to be able to alk to her about it. Wanting her to be curious about it, not as in trying it or something, but knowing me and understanding me.



To all
I hope everyone knows what I mean?
Forget about trying to get her to wet for me or me wetting as part of sex.
WHat I talk about is feelings, and emotions. Be able to share so secret stuff like that with someone.
Being able to talk about wetting with a person who dont like it (I KNOW THAT) and maybe feels it is gross. But a person who still loves me and a person I would love to share my most inner thoughts and feelings with, about that I like wetting myself........

[DavidEngland99]

Finesse,

I think the 'share everything' idea is great in theory, but it often does not work in practice. The way I look at it, different people see the world differently. For example, a gay man obviously lsees a pretty woman in a different way than you or I do. The same goes for wetting - if you are not into it, you obviously see it quite differently, and maybe Hannah would not really want to know about that side of you. Maybe she has things that she keeps private from you - that is normal for most couples I suspect. If you are absolutely sure Hannah is not into this, my advice would be to drop the subject.

BTW, it is hard to BE sure sometimes. I know someone who was married for 20 years to a man and thought she had dropped enough hints in the early days without effect. She only discovered in her 40's that he could be turned on that way too! I gather it spiced up their marriage no end!

I still think that the fact that she reacted to your wetting by saying 'mad for what?' means something - if only, that your wet state had not temporarily put her off sex - as I think it might some people. I mean, as I said somewhere else, wet lesbian sex must be utterly awesome - you don't want to miss out on that! However, discuss it in a way that lets you back out rather than 'spilling all' , if you will pardon the pun!

Above all, have lotts of fun,

David

[Crazyhorse]

Hi Finesse.

Does Hannah know of this board?

Maybe you should try and introduce her to some of the threads here, to show her just how many people share your love of wetting (but possibly not this thread, for obvious reasons). She may enjoy reading some of the stories, and want to know more about the subject from you.

However, I shall content myself this weekend with the thought of you wetting yourself while you are on your own :shock: .

[Indigo]

Hi Finesse!

It's rotten, isn't it, having someone who you really care for who isn't into wetting like you are, so you have to keep that part of you hidden from them. I know all about it ... because that's where I am too.

But look - you tried. So you hoped for more, and you didn't get it. Does that matter? You still love her, she still loves you: you have each other. THAT'S what matters.

By all means dream of the stars: but in reality, you never can reach for the stars; and you mustn't let those dreams get in the way of treasuring what you CAN get and HAVE got.

Feel free to PM me for more crap philosophy if you want. I've always had a bit of a soft spot for you. Don't ask me why. But I've felt sort of like a freindly uncle: there to give advice if you need it. I don't promise the advice will be any good, of course. I mean to say, I can write stories, and surely you don't expect me to be good at more than one thing do you? I am a man, after all!

But believe me: it's a shame, yes. But life doesn't suck. What you've already got with Hannah is precious. Treasure it. Value it. Enjoy it. Then go and find Hazel O'Connor's wonderful album Breaking Glass and listen to the final track "If Only". Listen to it as many times as you need to, and promise me not to let "if only" rule YOUR life.

[Finesse]

To David (and others):

Yeah, I am absolutely sure Hannah Is not into wetting.
And I agree with you that maybe you don’t have to share everything. And I think you are right most couples don’t. Just 1-½ year ago I was 100% sure I would never ever tell somebody I liked wetting. And that was just a 1½ year ago.
But last year the wish to talk about it with Hannah became stronger and stronger. I cant explain it, but I just wanted her to know. I mean if we just lie in bed cuddling (nothing more) and it feels so good, why shouldn’t I be able to talk about it? I mean it is part of me!
Maybe not a part she may like, but still. I should be able to tell her.
Maybe you all think I am a young naive kid (20 years old) who sees everything in black and white, or in a naïve romantic way, that you should know and share everything. Maybe that is right? But it is a big part of me as a person…….and if she loves me then she shouldn’t care. I love Hannah with all my heart, but a few things of her makes me mad, or at least annoys me. That is also something every couple has. Why shouldn’t wetting just be a part of that, not meaning so much.
But then again, sex is different…….who knows what she will think, and its what I am afraid of, that she may think she don’t turn me on, that I need wetting as part of it. That is not true, sex with Hannah is heaven, and wetting when I am alone is just a substitute…..or another part….or not part, but I could never live without the other! Its two different things, but I am not sure Hannah will think, or at least feel that way?

About saying mad for what, it was simply a reply to my question if she was mad. And I mean why should she , no-one would be mad for an accident, and the reply “mad for what” means just that.

I don’t get it why you think “wet lesbian sex” would be awesome? Do you wish you was a woman, who was gay? I mean, otherwise for you, finding a woman to have “wet sex” would be “utterly awesome”


To Crazyhorse:

No Hannah have no idea of this board.

No, I wont introduce her to this board. I know what you mean, but since I know she has no interest in wetting, I know she wont enjoy any stories. Maybe, if I tell her about me liking wetting, and the questions she ask goes in that direction, or internet, maybe I will show her the board. But that depends how she will react IF I talk to her about it. Which I probably wont. Not in a near future anyway.


To Indigo:

I know what you mean, and I guess most people on this board is in the same position as you and me, having a partner not knowing.

Yeah, I know I tried, and to be really honest, I am proud of it. It was a brave thing to do, if I say so myself!

And I know, the love we have is more than enough. Its more than most people have. And I am happy, I really am. And like I said, it isn’t until last year I got the urge, or desire of letting Hannah know. Before I was 100% sure never to tell anyone. I wish I still felt that way, it would be much easier then. But I don’t. And you cant control you feelings.

Soft spot for me, aw…..
Will se about PMs…I am not so found of them…….as people may know. But please continue replying on the board…….its nice hearing others thoughts…….

I think men are good at more than one thing…..not just more than one thing at the same time :wink: :wink: :P :twisted:

Okay, I will download the “If Only” song when I get the time.

Hugs to all
Finesse

[Ape]

I think there are too many counsels of despair here. It may not be the reality now, but if you feel that your relationship with Hannah will NEVER be intimate enough for you to be able to discuss your love of wetting, then I don't think it is a true relationship. Wetting is not just a pastime, or a sexual quirk that you enjoy - it is a fundamental part of who you are. To follow the reasoning of some posters above, and to accept the current state of affairs as "the best it'll be" is both unfair on yourself, and also dishonest to Hannah. I accept that such intimacy may not seem likely right now, but relationships always develop over time, and there may come a point where you feel you can be honest about your innermost self. If that point never comes, then both you and Hannah will be the losers. It seems to me an equivalent to being gay and not telling one's closest friends and parents. Could you live your life in the closet, straight to all who know and love you best? Then why would you accept such secrecy in wetting?

I wish you the best, of course, and I understand such a time of openness and honesty may seem unrealistic at present, but if it never comes, then something fundamental will be forever missing from your relationship - and that will surely be so painful as to be unbearable. As it seems to be already, going by your posts above.

As always, take care, Finesse.

[Holly]

Hi Finesse,

This is just a quick reply for now. As another recepient of your pm, I thought it was a good story and as it is true, it was worth posting! I'm glad you did but I fully respect your decision not to do so at the time because it was so personal. This thread is quite thought provoking and I may write something else during the week.

What I will say, which is similar to the other posters, is to be careful. I tried exactly the same thing with my boyfriend once, an had an accident in the back of his car, expecting to provoke a reaction. He was incredibly sympathetic but in truth he wasn't excited by it , even though at the time, I thought he was. Then I felt guilty for doing it because I thought my motives were wrong because I could have made it home, if I had tried.

I'm going to post something later about the things we do alone. But all I will say for now is don't take it seriously and just enjoy. I don't think you can share everything and remember this is just one facet of our sexuality.

Incidentally my partner is terrified that I'll have an accident and is always checking that I'm alright and I've been etc. And soon as he sees me jigging and fidgeting, we're stright off to find the nearest loo!!!

As for you being gay. I never gave it a second thought but if you feel better for saying it loud then that can only be good. Like most posters on this Board, I like you a lot and you come across as a very genuine warm person.

Love

Holly x :)


[Edited for typos!! :oops: 12/04]

[Frodo]

Perhaps female wetting isn't supposed to attract me, but this post did. Hannah loves you, and that's all you need to know. Relationships are rarely a perfect fit. Don't make that requirement.

Accept love from whence it comes and return it with equal intesity.

Reject it, and you will be alone. I speak from experience. Lonliness is not a Good Thing.

Sorry, Finesse, but I'm with Ape on this one. In spite of the intimacy and the poignancy of your account, I "wasn't there", so to speak: but I know that in our truest relationships we teach each other about the things we like both sexually and in the everyday, whether it be a certain touch or brush of the hand, a flavour, a scent, a way of approaching love, a particular word or gesture, whatever. Hannah should learn to supply as well as to ask - the educational process may take time but it has to happen. If you like wetting she can at least understand that now, and in time will grow to like it because you do. It isn't the 100% answer but it is open, and therefore honest. True love isn't a negotiated association of two souls with their own agendas, it is their union into one.

All right, this sounds idyllic; but in my walk of life I have to stumble through the ruins of many such "negotiated" relationships with people who have never compromised their personal terms and therefore never really been more than friends. In the words of someone I met recently: "I've slept with a colleague for twenty years". The colleague now sleeps with someone else. Walls are too easy to build, too hard to demolish.

While wading through the broken relationships of others I am a personal testament to relationship failure for just such reasons: my partner does not share my enjoyment of some things and, unwisely, although brave enough to make an initial move or two, I did not persist: as a result we have degenerated as a couple into two separate lives. I have an outside relationship. I suspect so does she: I simply don't care enough to find out. We will probably stop sharing a roof fairly soon now. This after fifteen? years.

If you have real love, you must be honest with all of your feelings, I think: especially one that dominates your life as much as wetting does. And Frodo, there is as much loneliness within a dishonest relationship as exists in solitude. Believe me, this I know.

[Indigo]

there is as much loneliness within a dishonest relationship as exists in solitude. Believe me, this I know.

Maybe there is; but I am not sure that I would characterise a relationship as "dishonest" merely because one or both of the partners has something that they have never told the other about themselves.

Intimacy and privacy are not mutually exclusive; and to have perfect intimacy does not require a total abandonment of all privacy. I think it is a matter of achieving a balance which both partners are happy with; and that balance will be different in every instance.

[Crazyhorse]

Finesses' situation makes me really sad. She must love Hannah very much, and wants to have no secrets. She wants to open her heart and lay all her mysteries out for Hannah to share, which is a natural thing to want to do if you are that smitten with someone. But she is afraid that if she does this and Hannah doesn't share her interests, that the relationship will be damaged.
It is an almost impossible situation to be in. Do you do what your heary says you must and just reveal everything to your lover, or do you just be thankful for what you already have and continue with an unfulfilled ambition.
Which ever alternative is chosen, then there will always be regrets that the other choice was not made/or things left as rhey were.
However, I detect a sense of fear that Hannah may decide that Finesse is a bit wierd, and I dont think that I could carry on with that for very long, so if it was me and I had had a couple of double vodkas, I would sit Hannah down and just tell her everything, and I mean everything. The history of the wetting interest, the reason for the deliberate birthday wetting etc.. the lot, and just be totally honest.
If Hannah has any kind of conscience she will surely be moved by such an outpouring, and maybe she will respond by telling Finesse of her secret passions, because she must have some. They will probably not be compatible but at least the relationship will be completely open. If the opposite happens and Hannah just suggests ending the relationship because of things that she cant cope with, well then maybe it was a little too one-sided in the first place.

[Tapper]

Hi Finesse,

I wish I could advise you to go "out on a limb" and tell Hannah about your interest in wetting since it is a large part of who you are, and you both seem to know and trust each other enough to give out intimate details about yourselves. It would be wonderful if she could know this much about you and still accept you. Even if she thought this watersports thing was weird I would hope she would still accept you as her lover with the understanding that all of us are weird in different ways.

But since you are sure she is not into wetting, you don't want to risk getting her to thinking that you want to get her involved in it by telling her the wrong way, assuming that you want her to always be your friend. You won't risk losing her friendship by not telling her about it, on the other hand.

Some people are repulsed by urine, thinking that it just belongs in the toilet, and would be uncomfortable talking about watersports. This may be a little weird but remember that all of us have a little weirdness, anyway. If you think this is the case you'd probably have nothing to gain by telling her of your interest in wetting. It would only maker feel uneasy.

However you may eventually get another nagging urge to tell her about this part of your life in the hope that she will know "the whole you". She may get certain clues like wet knickers in the laundry, or may find you here at this site. If nothing comes of any obvious clues then it's probably better to leave well enough alone, and go on without telling her.

I would hope for better than this, of course, as you are very likable, but it may take some time.

Tapper

[Alizarin]

I’m in a situation not dissimilar to Finesse’s… Or more precisely I was a few months ago.

I’d hinted about the whole wetting thing to my partner fairly obviously (to me anyway) because I wanted them to “know the real me”. Yeah the same reason, I guess that’s pretty common. I actually did tell them once but they’d drunk even more then I had that night so eventually I had to conclude that they didn’t even remember (I’m still not sure…). Anyway as I became more and more obvious in my hinting I became more and more distressed by how it was pretty much just being ignored. It would have been _hard_ to ignore. I was becoming really depressed about how it was turning out, and to begin with I’d only wanted to share everything, but now it was becoming this huge issue. I thought about skipping the state (yeah really) but settled on sitting down and telling them. From under a “blanket of fear” actually, but not drinking, I remember how great that turned out last time.

And the result… Wouldn’t have called it in a hundred years.

Utter confusion pretty much. Although wetting was accepted at part of me I couldn’t seem to get through that I’m happy with that and don’t want to change it. There are reasons for that that probably don’t apply in most cases though. That appears to be a concept too far. On the plus side I’m feeling pretty happy about it (I’m thinking relief). But maybe the lesson of this story is sometimes it doesn’t even matter what you do. Anything you do will end more or less the same way. Instead of a partner who doesn’t know all of me I have one who can’t understand all of me.

I love them more then I can say. And I am who I am.

[Crazyhorse]

Congratulations on your bravery Alizarin, on two counts.

First that you went ahead and told your partner how you feel, and second that you used your first post to tell us here.

I think there is an increasing trend to cover up things that are considered not worthy of showing to the world relentlessly. This has been accelerated by the media who now concentrate on body shape, looks, clothes etc. and anything that doesn't come up to the image of perfection is kept very well hidden.

Unfortunately, the media have great power to influence the publics mindset, and soon there will be less and less of a place for those with less than perfect looks, interests, lifestyle etc. I know this smacks of sci-fi human genetic engineering, and, I cant stop rambling once I start, but it will be sad if everyone will have to portray a perfect, clean and beautiful image to everyone else, or find themselves ignored and ridiculed.

I think that any confession would have to be done as a two-way effort, with both sides coming out with what they consider to be their wierd traits. Then if a partner seems to be admitting to tame stuff that they think is really bad, it might be best to cut short the initiative for fear of frightening the partner.

I'll stop now, because I am probably talking rubbish, but I think this is allowed during an election campaign, isn't it?

[Estelle]

As one of the original recipients of your pm, Finesse, I would first of all like to acknowledge your courage in posting it here in public - even if it was a drunken decision! I hope you don't regret it.

It seems to me that much (not all) of the response has been to try to give you advice on how you might get Hannah to join you in wetting, while hearing and sympathising with your predicament.

I'd like to start with your assertion that Hannah is definitely not turned on by wetting. OK. We have to accept that. You know Hannah, we don't. Maybe you wetting in her presence or Hannah wetting for you is just not an option. OK. what, then?

Well, for a start, there is a world of difference between being turned on by something and being interested in it. For instance, I'm not turned on in the slightest by rubber, but I have recently met new friend (not a gf) who is and it fascinates me what it all means to her. Her openness about her rubber fetish led me to trust her with my love of wetting. Her reaction was the same. Not turned on at all but fascinated that i am. And we're not even lovers but we are friends and we're interested in each other.

So I have some thoughts for you.

You say you don't want or need to share wetting with Hannah but you do want her to know the whole Finesse. Isn't that true the other way round? Dont you want to know the whole Hannah? Wouldn't you accept it if she told you she was turned on by something that turned you off? If she said she just wanted you to know and be interested, not to share it?

Perhaps you could ask her if she has any special things that turn her on. You could say that, even if they don't turn you on you'd like to know about them. I mean, it is genuinely fascinating what people do get turned on by! That may lead to a sharing on a "no judgement basis" that would allow you to tell her about wetting.

Secondly, if you can't share it for real then perhaps you could find more ways of sharing online. Continuing to share here, sharing your fantasies of what you would like to happen, chatting (I don't mean wetting - we've had that discussion) at The Pool. There are some great people there (as well as a boatload of prats) and talking interactively is very different from posting here. Both there and here, the people who care are here for each other as well as for ourselves.

Thirdly, take whatever opportunities present themselves for solo wetting. You may have limited opportunities but you did say you were going to have a weekend of wetting while Hannah was away. Shared sex is wonderful, but so is solo sex. Only yourself to please and you can write the scenario exactly as you want it!

OK gratuitous advice session over. Beyond that, all I can say is to wish you happiness in your relationship with Hannah and to hope you keep coming here regularly

Squeezes(!!!!!)

Estelle

[Adrian]

Finesse. Estelle's advice appears to be very good and eminently sound. I would go on to say that it's important to accept in any relationship that there are things which you may not be able to share and do together. It sounds very much as though you're not able to share your wetting 'turn on' with Hannah but, as Estelle wisely pointed out, there maybe things that Hannah can't or won't (for reasons of her own) share with you. There's much I'm sure that can and do share though. It's important to build on that and make the most of what's possible instead of worrying about what isn't. Friendships and relationships are very precious - enjoy them for what they are. Life's short and we're a long time dead.

:)

[Finesse]

To Ape:

It depends on what a true relationship is. Is it really to share every detail. Like somebody said, wetting is just part of my sexuality. A big part, in a way, bit still just a part. Just because I feel a need to share my wetting with Hannah doesn’t mean it is the right thing to do. Or is it? Is it fair to talk about it with Hannah or maybe the opposite?

What is a true relationship? Have YOU ever told your partner? If no, does that mean you has never been in a real relationship? Is ll your other (if not all) relationships where you didn’t teel not real relationships?

I don’t know. I don’t know what is right or wrong. It is interesting to hear what others think, so please continue write about how you think and feel……I don’t know what is right or wrong.

No it is no way in the same area as being gay, and not telling about that. Being gay means I love a person of the same sex, not just being turned on by the woman body. Love is so much, much more. And living with someone you love, sharing a life and having a relationship is so much more than a sexual thing. And only a part of my sexuality. So comparing that is just wrong. And it is a different in who you love, and deny that and being ashamed of that. I mean you are straight, do you lie to all your family about that just because you don’t talk about your wetting interest? Its not the same thing!

I don’t know…I just long after talking about it with her….just lying in bed cuddling and talking. Why shouldn’t I be able to talk about that…..but….isnt it painful for you not talking about it with your partner? Isnt it unbearable for you? Don’t you feel something fundamental is missing in your relationships (or earlier?)



To Holly:

Yeas it was personal, and is not untill know I feel like sharing about it.

Yes it is thought provoking……it is not an easy question….and it maybe don’t have right or wrongs?

I have some vauge memories about your story, wetting on purpose…..but don’t remember it……But I understand your guilt….I mean….it is not being honest to your partner….and maybe it is taking advantage…..of someone innocent…..it is a strange feeling and….well….maybe wrong?

But I agree….wetting is just part of my sexuality. I mean Hannah, both as a person and her body truns me on……it is like ecstacy. Just her personality…..just seeing her smile at me is sooo….I feel like I am in heaven. But still her body and having sex with her is another part. My wetting and fantasies about that another……

Thanks for the kind words:)



To Frodo:

I totally understand what you mean……I don’t know….I am 20 years old and Hannah is almost 19. Older people may know a lot more about relationships. What is a good relationship and what is not. Is it possibly to love someone fully and still not talk about certain stuff?

You say it is okay not the share everything, and others say it is not okay, that the relationship is not “complete” and I don’t know what is right? Or maybe the right thing is different for different people. But I don’t know what is right for me? And what is right for Hannah?

Lots of questions, but no real answer……

This really isnt about female wetting, it could as well be male-male or male-female. A relationships is the same either the sexes…..




To Osiris:

I have to ask you as well, have you ever been in a ”true relationship”? Have you ever told about your wetting? How, and why, you feel the way you do and about what? How did it go, how did she react?
Sorry for the question, but it is relevant, I think.

Yes, the idyllic idea, is what I want. The question is if I can get it.
I don’t think Hannah has any obligations in liking my wetting. Nor tring it or even being interested in it. People are what people are, people feel what people feel. How can I deny Hannah the right to feel the way she does (if she feels that way), Isnt that true love, loving a person despite all fault he or she may have? Loving her and accepting it? Who are I to rule over her and to tell her what to think and feel?
Of course she have to accept my “fault”, liking wetting, but in no way like it. She will love me as me, but not some parts of me……
Of course trying, thanks to love, is one thing, but if she don’t like it……




To Indigo:
I Agree with you about the dishonest part.




To Crazyhorse:

It is just not my situation! I would guess most people on this boards! At least sometimes during life….

I am not afraid Hannah wont share my interest, that I DO know. She will not.

A agree with, you whatever choice is made, thought of what could have been will always be….of course if I tell her and it “works out”, whatever that will be, but I mean still loving each other just as before….then I it isnt something to regret. Not telling would be thinking of regrets.

Yeah, I am scared she will think I am weird. Before I was also afraid she would leave me, or stop loving me, but I am pretty sure she wont. Not just because of that. Not ONLY that anyway. But most people hearing about people liking wetting will think they are weird. I think it is weird people like feet or shoes. I accept people who does, but cant understand……..

Yeah, telling her all that is what I wish for. Maybe I should, but people don’t always do as they should…..

Yes, maybe she has something secret thing she will tell, maybe not. Not to go into details but she is very inventive in bed…….



To Tapper:

Yeah, it is easy to say “tell her”. Very easy to tell. But to do it in real life. I mean, how many on this board has?

I am pretty sure she will accept it…..but still think I am weird. But accepting that as well. Just as you say. I agree with most you said.

Yeah, to many people are really repulsed by urine….but at the same time, who can blame them? I mean, for example, pooping for me is gross. Yet many people like it in different ways. I pee my pants but think pooping my pants is gross. Who can blame people not inte wetting not thinking it is gross?

Yeah, what does I have to gain telling her about my wetting. Just as you say, nothing. Of course me in my mind knowing she knows, which is a goal just that itself. But still…..if she don’t feel comfortable about me liking it, then what? Then just bad things can come from it.

Yeah…..clues….I am very good in hiding since I lived with my mom for so long, and I have been wetting myself since I was 12……but I am also scared that when I feel the urge I can resist letting out clues. But if I do and she find the clues maybe I will panic if she asks me about them. Its easy to say, no you wont, but if it comes out of the blue, the questions, the panick may take over and denying eveything is the normal reaction……

Me, likeable….aw… :roll: :roll: 8) :D :D




To Alizarin:
Thanks for being so open about stuff like this in your first post. Very brave!

I have to ask, you wrote about telling “them” and that “they”. I mean, who did you tell, and how many? What was the relationships?

I can feel exactly how you feel, and I feel the same way. Great minds thinks alike;)
I can feel for you in every step that lead to you telling.
Did you asked them why they didn’t act on the clues? Did they noticed the clues. Why didn’t they act?

I understand how you mean, maybe it is just a horrible having you rparnet knowing but don’t understanding? Of course accepting is one good thing, but not understanding. Of course who are I or you to demanding they should understand? But maybe not wanting to understand? That Hannah would care less about my wetting would also hurt me a lot. I mean…..if I tell her something like that, from my heart, and whit is a big thing for me, and she don’t care, that would hurt. It would hurt a lot……real pain.




To Estelle:

Yeah, Hannah is definitely not turned on by wetting. I hope everyone knows that by now.

I understand what you say about the difference in being turned on and interested. And you are right.

Of course I would like to include and share my wetting with Hannah. In the sex. But I know she wont like it and accept that. End of story. But I still wish…..

Of course it would be the other way around. If she had something she is turned on by and me turned off by, I would be interested. Not share the actually thing, but be interested in why she likes it, how and maybe also more exactly what.

Yes, but if I ask her about if she has something special she gets turned on by, and says no. Then she ask me the same thing, what will I do then? Lie?

Or if she has something, like taking a pen “writing” on her back (not with the inc out, but the feel of someone doing it feels really really nice, a tip to everyone;)
No maybe not that, but something special that is still very normal. And then she asks me what should I do then? Lie? Tell the truth?

If you say tell the truth, why not tell her right away then…..

But what says Hannah will be honest if I ask her. Maybe she doesn’t mean to lie, but if you ask personal questions like that, like wetting four you and me, maybe the panic hits in and we deny everything…..

I share it every time I am on this board. I know what you mean by chatting, but as I have told you before, I don’t like online wetting, it is not for me.
But I also hear you say no online wetting, at the pool. Maybe I will try sometime. Maybe I will give that a chance. But I like this board, I like stories and fantasies I can to both in my head in bed as well as roleplaying (on my own) and actually wetting myself. I do that. Many times……..

My solo wettings is frequent. I mean Hannah isnt home all the time and I use that time to play my games. The hard part is the wet pants, and hiding and explaining them, but I handle.

Yeah, solo sex is wonderful, but not the same. It’s a difference, but sometimes solo is just as great, but in a different way. I have been wetting myself since I was 12 so…..I will never stop that…..

Will never stop coming here…even if it is not as much now as before…..

Don’t squeeze me to hard….I need to pee right now… :P :twisted: :twisted:



To Adrian
Yeah, I agree, that in a relationship some things maybe is not meant to be shared.
Of course it may be that Hannah also has stuff she don’t dare to tell me, or maybe don’t want to tell me. If you asked me 2 years ago I would have said, honestly, that I didn’t want to share it with Hannah….I felt no need. But now I do. But whats says, that IF Hannah has some secret stuff that she wants to share it with me. Maybe she don’t want it. Maybe she wont feel comfortable with that?

Yeah, me and Hannah share a lot of things…..and that is even more important…..

Hugs to all
Finesse

[DavidEngland99]

Finesse,

Honestly, I would not get too wound up about all this - you love Hannah, and if you don't think she will share wetting, don't tell her. I have never told my partner of 30 years - because I am certain she would not like it either.

I tend to feel that if someone can't feel the fun of wetting, they may feel disgusted - and you certainly don't want Hannah to feel that.

A relationship is not diminished just because you have a few private corners that belong only to you - Hannah may have her own special websites - who knows!

Just relax and enjoy being young and in love!

David

[Val]

There seem to be two different things, one is letting her know, the other whether you'd want her to join in or not. The second can be very tricky and I've usually kept quiet because it can lead to a situation of somebody feeling that if they don't like the same thing, they're letting you down and then doing something they don't really enjoy. If they don't enjoy it, how can you? Best to make the most of what's together now because you have admitted you are both young and even though it's not something anybody wants to admit, you'll probably both have many more men and women to your life than just each other.

[Ape]

To Ape:

It depends on what a true relationship is. Is it really to share every detail. Like somebody said, wetting is just part of my sexuality. A big part, in a way, bit still just a part. Just because I feel a need to share my wetting with Hannah doesn’t mean it is the right thing to do. Or is it? Is it fair to talk about it with Hannah or maybe the opposite?

What is a true relationship? Have YOU ever told your partner? If no, does that mean you has never been in a real relationship? Is ll your other (if not all) relationships where you didn’t teel not real relationships?


The two long term, deep relationships I have had, I have told my partners - one tried it and did not like it, the other never tried it but did not mind. With both, there was no way the relationship would have been the same without them knowing. Yes, it took quite a while in the relationship before I felt comfortable enough to even try, but there came a point when we that intimate, that close emotionally, that to deny such a fundamental part of me would be wrong.

I find it incredibly sad that there are people who have had partners for over 30 years and not told them. I accept that people are different and that others make different choices, but my view is that those people who can compartmentalise their relationship in such a way, do their partner a disservice and devalue the incredible intimacy of a two person relationship. Indeed, I personally cannot understand why bother with such a relationship if you cannot even admit to your true self. You say it is not the same as denying you are gay - really? Enjoying wetting is not some quirky pastime, or a bit of fun - it is a core part of your sexuality. How can they ever know the real you unless they at least know of this part of you?

Yes, it takes time, Finesse, and I am not saying you should force the issue now, but if in two years time, there has never been a suitable point, you have never felt close enough to be truly open and honest, then (from what you have previously typed) I think your relationship is not 'the one', nor do I think it is anything other than a friendship or a convenience.

[Indigo]

People differ, Ape, and there's nothing sad about that. Please don't condemn those whose lives differ from yours, merely because they differ. If David and his wife are happy the way they are, where's the problem?

For myself, I have never understood how a couple can marry yet keep their finances totally separate. I couldn't live like that. But I'd never condemn thos that do as "sad".

[Alizarin]

Finesse

I've only ever actually told one person (current partner). I can't see myself telling anyone who I'm not in a relationship with. Though it wouldn't surprise me if other people know, I'm not necessarily subtle, and quite average at cleaning caches ;)

I have to assume my partner didn’t notice the clues. Blind Freddy would have noticed the clues so either my obvious clues are decidedly not obvious or there was some subconscious ignoring going on.

The lack of understanding could well be due to something with them. (As in it most likely is and that’s just an unfortunate combination). I’m sure that they are trying to understand, and can’t. Which is unfortunate :( . I think there is caring but not the kind of caring that I at all thought I’d get. I’m not after support to get over wetting. No I’m not. But they can’t understand that I could be happy with it. Just can’t understand that.

Not caring at all would hurt. A lot.

[Holly]

Finesse,

Honestly, I would not get too wound up about all this - you love Hannah, and if you don't think she will share wetting, don't tell her.

A relationship is not diminished just because you have a few private corners that belong only to you - Hannah may have her own special websites - who knows!

Just relax and enjoy being young and in love!

David

David,

I agree with much of your advice but when you're 'young and in love' believe me, life gets very complicated and you always feel insecure. I think that is one of the points that Finesse is making.

Thank you Finesse for taking the trouble to write a reply to everyone as well, which was very thoughtful.

Holly x :)

[Ape]

People differ, Ape, and there's nothing sad about that. Please don't condemn those whose lives differ from yours, merely because they differ. If David and his wife are happy the way they are, where's the problem?

For myself, I have never understood how a couple can marry yet keep their finances totally separate. I couldn't live like that. But I'd never condemn thos that do as "sad".

I think it is sad though, because David has kept a very important part of his life completely secret from his partner. I am not condemning him because they differ (a million people differ from me in a million ways and I couldn't give a hoot), but because it is a deceit and a lie. You ask if he and his wife are happy - where is her choice in the matter? She doesn't know anything about this part of his life. If she knew, either she would still love him or she would leave him - and for her not to know is to have a deceit in the relationship.

Would you not condemn someone who has an affair? (Indeed, I believe David has had a wet fling in the past, so it may be inevitable that one deceit leads to another) Maybe you don't think cheating on your wife is wrong, but to me keeping such a fundamental part of who you are secret after such a length of time is no different.

[Indigo]

It is neither a deceit nor a lie simply not to tell something; unles you are asked and deny it.

Holly has not told us what colour knickers she is wearing today, nor whether they are wet or dry. But she is neither deceiving nor lying to us.

[DavidEngland99]

Ape,

Wow - I seem to be in the dock here!

If you believe that a relationship is, above all, about sharing absolutely every thought, then I guess you can fault me! However, as things are at present, people can find it very hard to discuss the idea of wet fun with others that don't share the feeling. It would probably be different if society acknowledged that our fetish exists!

I think it is easy to become too judgemental - even on a wet panties board - and to forget that different people have to cope with different circumstances as best they can.

You are correct, I did, indeed have a wet fling, and my partner (we are not married) knows about this, but not that it was wet!

LOL Ape, do you wish to pass sentence?

David

[Estelle]

Isn't this getting rather judgemental?

Not telling a partner which sexual fetishes turn you on can hardly be regarded as heinous. Rather, it's regretable that our society's moral hypocrisy puts people in the position where they feel they have to conceal such things.

We all have to take whatever decision is dictated by our circumstances. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a partner who can see through the moral cant.

Now, not telling a partner you have HIV - that would be deceitful, irresponsible and outrageous. Still, it happens. Frequently.

Estelle

[Ape]

Ape,

Wow - I seem to be in the dock here!

If you believe that a relationship is, above all, about sharing absolutely every thought, then I guess you can fault me! However, as things are at present, people can find it very hard to discuss the idea of wet fun with others that don't share the feeling. It would probably be different if society acknowledged that our fetish exists!

I think it is easy to become too judgemental - even on a wet panties board - and to forget that different people have to cope with different circumstances as best they can.

You are correct, I did, indeed have a wet fling, and my partner (we are not married) knows about this, but not that it was wet!

LOL Ape, do you wish to pass sentence?

David

I thought I already had. It wasn't meant to become a personal onslaught at you - it just seems you illustrated my point. I think Indigo misunderstood my word 'sad', as I meant it just makes ME sad (not that you are sad). I also got the impression you were married from Indigo's ise of the word wife. I didn't mean for you to become the sole target, I just had a point to make and it seemed you illustrated it.

I find it funny (weird, ha ha, not sure which) that of all people, people on this board can be so dismissive of wetting - yes, that's right - here, pissing ourselves is no different from choosing a pair of pants!

Except.

We can tell from this whole thread that for Finesse, it simply IS different. Sure, maybe for David, it is just a fetish that is nearly an irrelevance in his life and I am sorry I condemned you for being unfaithful. You have all the rights in the world to do whatever you feel the need to, in your circumstances. I don't know them, and God forbid I should apply any kind of principle to how I view others. I must remember that next time I see a pickpocket, I remember that they too have their circumstances and therefore who am I to judge (lest I be judged etc.)

Alright, I'll stop MY tedious moral cant. In a minute.

But, to return to topic - Finesse makes clear that wetting is not just a pastime for her, that it is not just a small part of her life, a little side fetish. For her, it is fundamental. And when people make decisions, Estelle, it is not just circumstances that dictate, but also who they are, their character. Maybe sometimes people make a choice (not telling) because they have no issue with deceit. But for someone who sees wetting as an absolutely fundamental part of their life, I think that to not tell your most intimate person, your other half, is to me, to live a lie. Not the same as lying about AIDS, for sure, but still a lie.

(Indigo, we could have a discussion about whether inaction is the same as action, but it would surely end with Hitler, the Nazis and the slaughter of Jews).

[DavidEngland99]

Estelle,

Thanks for putting things back into perspective :wink:

David

[Estelle]

I wasn't accusing you of moral cant, Ape. I was accusing the people who condemn deviation from whatever sexual norms they feel it right to impose on the rest of us.

I accept your correction of my use of the word "circumstance". I think I meant it to include who we are, though circumstance can still circumscribe (!!!) our choices. Sometimes, for some people, concealments have to be made.

You say "to me, (it is) to live a lie". Maybe if you did it you would perceive yourself as living a lie. I can't argue with that. That would be your perception of yourself in that situation The same may not be true for others.

I doubt that wetting, for anybody who comes here regularly, is "a little side fetish", David included. I suspect that for all of us it is central to our sexuality, though we may all have other "centres" as well. I have. I have been lucky - the relationship I had for ten years included all that was central to my sexuality. Finesse has made it clear how painful it is to have to conceal them.

Estelle

[~*~ k a t e ~*~]

I get the feeling, Ape, that you have a compelling need to bring the actions or words of others into question, and with as much sensationalism as you can possibly muster. Often, I don't think you actually care, or are truly affronted, when you make your cynical replies, it's just that you crave the argument.

You wrote "...we could have a discussion about whether inaction is the same as action, but it would surely end with Hitler, the Nazis and the slaughter of Jews", and you were right. That is how the discussion would end, but only because you would steer it that way. I highly doubt someone of sound judgement, when discussing the pros and cons of keeping a wetting fetish a secret, would stoop to referencing the Holocaust. You, of course, favour tactics like that simply for their shock value, and to add that little extra, eyebrow-raising "oomph" to your tirade. With a bit of imagination I'm sure lots of parallels could be drawn between horrific, historical events and more trivial, everyday ones but people who are actually good at debating never need to resort to that sort of thing.

[Crazyhorse]

This thread seems to be descending into an illogical polarisation.

Are we really being asked to accept that only a 100% open relationship is a truly real and loving one, and everything not exchanged between partners is deceit?

I had a number of girlfriends before I met mrs crazyhorse but I dont feel the need to inform her of every thing myself and previous partners did together before she met me, and I'm sure that she would not want to know anyway. Similarly, I do not ask her about her liasons prior to me, because that is not part of my life with her. Granted, if I was an insecure person who constantly needed reassuring that I was an improvement on what had gone before, then I might pester her with all manner of verbal cross-examination. But I am not. For all I know, a previous boyfriend may have been the most wonderful sexual performer on the planet, but she has decided to live with me for 30 years for other reasons. Even if that were true, I would not accuse her of lies and deceit for not telling me.

[Ape]

I get the feeling, Ape, that you have a compelling need to bring the actions or words of others into question, and with as much sensationalism as you can possibly muster. Often, I don't think you actually care, or are truly affronted, when you make your cynical replies, it's just that you crave the argument. .

No.

I use the analogies I do because I think they illustrate the points I am making. I accept they are often extreme, BECAUSE that normally makes clear the point I wish to make. With the Nazi example, I used it because it is such an obvious example of inaction being as responsible for a subsequent course of events as action. Everyone knows about it, everyone has probably had arguments (or discussions when they were at school). Therefore, it is an easy example in which to see the principle (inaction is as culpable as action). The only difference is applying the principle to a different example. I don't know what you consider being good at debate (usually, on here, discussing HOW people debate rather than WHAT they are saying, it seems), but I am sure the best teachers always said "examples, examples, examples!"

If I actually craved the argument, I would surely never go for the killer blow, but rather enjoy teasing it out small bit by small bit?




Returning once more to topic, Crazyhorse, there is a massive difference between not telling your current partner everything about previous partners and keeping wetting a secret. Who is asking that you "accept that only a 100% open relationship is a truly real and loving one, and everything not exchanged between partners is deceit?

I am not saying they have to know EVERYTHING about you, I am simply saying it cannot be a true relationship if they don't know SOME FUNDAMENTAL THINGS about you. Keeping our love of wetting a complete secret from partners IS different from not telling them how good a fuck your last partner was!

[timmywet]

Finesse,
I agree with Holly.
I have been in a very similar situation to you. I've had a girlfriend that everything was great in the relationship except she did not know about my wetting. Like you, I knew that she wasn't into it. I tried my hand and staged a "Wetting Accident". I was so scared of what her reaction was that particular experience wasn't that great...not like i had liked. At any rate, her reaction was one of pure sympathy and caring but she wasn't turned on...
I am not sugesting that you tell her your desire or not tell her. I think you have to follow your heart on that one. This may sound corny but I think it's accurate to say that whatever you decide to do, you have our support and you're not alone on this one. I know that probably doesn't help much on this particular issue...I appologize that I couldn't offer anything much more.
With regard to the particular relationship that I spoke of, the way I dealt with it was, once I figured out that she wasn't repulsed by it, I would occosionally wet in front of her. I let her think that it was the result of a weak bladder. Her reaction was the same..."No biggie...People have accidents..you can change when we get home.."....etc..
I have since been fortunate enough to get in a relationship with someone who also enjoyes wetting but that's another story.
TAke care, Finnesse
Tim

[wetter2005]

if you were my girlfriend I wouldve peed my pants for you to. then we wouldve had hot sex